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Topic: MARSHALL Family - Redbourn/Wheathampsted (Read 830 times)
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mcpm
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Posts: 11
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi,
I am trying to confirm the marriage of William Marshall b1801 Kimpton to Charlotte? c 1826.
William's parents were John and Ruth Gu(e)rney of Kimpton and they married in 1798. I also need help identifying John's birthplace,date etc.
Many thanks
Chris Marshall 
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« Last Edit: Wednesday 06 February 08 14:06 GMT (UK) by Rick »
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JLo
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Posts: 484
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Hi Chris
Not an answer to your question, but just to let you know that I have a number of Marshall's born in Kimpton in my tree - I suspect 'your' John & Ruth and 'my' William and Elizabeth may have been siblings. I'm having a fair bit of trouble with mine too!! 
Am I right that you think William & Charlotte were married in Redbourn or Wheathampstead? If so I can have a look in the parish records.
Julie
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukMarshall, Beeson (Herts) Lo(e)wenthal,Kavanagh, Maxam (London, Birmingham) Harrisson, Matthews (London, Essex) Poulton, Philbrick (Essex) Guest, Timmins (Staffs) Raynes/Ryall (Ireland, Birmingham) White (Bucks) Gunn (Scotland, Lancs, Essex) Ison (Tamworth, Birmingham, USA, Canada) |
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mcpm
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Posts: 11
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Julie and Peter,
Many thanks for your replies.
I am sure that William's first wife is Charlotte Saye so thanks for your help,Peter. Charlotte died in 1837 and he married Elizabeth Munt of Sandridge in Redbourn 6 months later.
With regard to John and Ruths marriage in Wheathampsted in 1798, I thought John came from Hitchin, but I do not think that is the case now! Do you know where he might have been from? Is there anywhere I could see your tree , Julie? I would be happy to share mine.
Thanks again
Chris
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mcpm
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Julie,
What year was your William born in? John is, I think, his father not brother.
Regards
Chris
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JLo
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Hi Chris
I'll PM you so we can swap what we've done so far. All I know about my William was he was born approx 1775. I think his wife Elizabeth died in 1841. They were living in Kings Walden. They had 9 children, 7 of which were born in Kimpton including my ggg grandfather George Marshall b.1818.
I was thinking of making a trip to HALs to have a look at this lot, so the more info I have on them the better.
Julie
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukMarshall, Beeson (Herts) Lo(e)wenthal,Kavanagh, Maxam (London, Birmingham) Harrisson, Matthews (London, Essex) Poulton, Philbrick (Essex) Guest, Timmins (Staffs) Raynes/Ryall (Ireland, Birmingham) White (Bucks) Gunn (Scotland, Lancs, Essex) Ison (Tamworth, Birmingham, USA, Canada) |
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mcpm
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Julie,
My William was born 1801 in Kimpton-Might be your William's son!
Do you have a John b c1775
Thanks
Chris 
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mcpm
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Peter,
That is excellent news-many thanks for your help.
Regards
Chris
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RichardK
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Posts: 210
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Julie - I think I've been researching the same Marshalls as you, William & Elizabeth (I'm descended from their son William 1805-1863). I suspect they were from the Peter's Green end of the parish of Kimpton, as I have various appearances of them around places like Chiltern Green (in Luton parish) and Diamond End (in King's Walden parish) which are nearby. Here's an outline of what I have on them, missing off siblings etc:
William Marshall ch. 21 Jan 1776, Luton (of Chiltern Green), d. 14 Nov 1847, The Heath, King's Walden - labourer
m. 30 May 1803, Luton
Elizabeth Bent bur. 15 Mar 1826, Luton (of King's Walden) aged 43.
William's parents were:
John Marshall ch. 16 Oct 1748, Luton (of Chiltern Green) - I have searched for his death or burial without success so far!
m. 21 Oct 1771, Luton
Elizabeth Madle (a widow at time of marriage to John) bur. 2 Jun 1803, Luton
John's parents were:
John Marshall ch. 23 Feb 1718/9, Luton (of East Hyde)
m. 8 Nov 1745, Luton
Elizabeth Saunders
John's parents were:
Joseph Marshall and Sarah
I haven't been able to find Joseph and Sarah's marriage record, and there seem to be two plausible candidates for Joseph's christening. One is at Luton on 11 Apr 1686, son of Joseph and Mary Marshall. This one would appear to be from a prominent St Albans family, who were yeomen and coachmen, and from the 1670s owned the Fleur de Lys and Kings Head inns in St Albans and ran the stagecoach from St Albans to London. As the roads improved they were able to extended their service to make Luton the terminus by the 1690s. This family fell on hard times, with one of their number going bankrupt in 1733. This family's story is written up in a book called St Albans 1650-1700 A thoroughfare town - which is partially available on Google Books.
The other candidate for Joseph Marshall's christening is on 6 Oct 1687 at Harpenden, which happens to be into another reasonably well documented family. This Joseph was son of Philip & Elizabeth Marshall. Philip's brother James was the founder of a the James Marshall Trust, which is a charity which owns parts of central Harpenden still today. James Marshall's will, along with those of his mother and sister I have put on Your Archives yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk and which in combination show that this family's money was derived from farmland in the parish of Luton, particularly around Thrales End, which is quite close to East Hyde and Chiltern Green.
I'm trying to think of ways I can establish which Joseph is 'mine', although both candidates are quite interesting.
Regards
Richard.
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Kelly, Birkenhead & Co. Kildare
Marshall, Luton & area
Reid, Co. Kildare & Dublin
Cox, Barnack Northamptonshire
Edwards, Pagham, Sussex & area
Scott, Roxburghshire & Perthshire
Mitchell, Warwickshire
Savage, Hampshire
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mcpm
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 11
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Richard,
My William Marshall was born in 1801 in Kimpton of John Marshall and Ruth Guerny. I know that they were married in Wheathampstead but do not know John's birthplace. It may be possible that my John is brother of your William born c1776/1775. Did you have any info on siblings? John was also born c1775/76
Many thanks
Chris Marshall
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RichardK
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 210
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Chris
Looking at it, I have no record of my William Marshall 1776-1847 having a brother John - instead I have the following:
George ch. 19 Dec 1773 (died young - I do have his burial date but not to hand)
William ch. 21 Jan 1776
Elizabeth ch. 24 May 1778
Sarah ch. 25 Nov 1780
Phoebe ch. 9 Feb 1783
George ch. 26 Jun 1785
All at St Mary in Luton, parents John & Elizabeth Marshall.
How do you know your John was born about 1775? Does he appear in any of the censuses? Looking on the IGI the nearest John to Kimpton born about that time in Herts or Beds is at Hemel Hempstead - which is the neighbouring parish to Redbourn.
Regards
Richard.
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Kelly, Birkenhead & Co. Kildare
Marshall, Luton & area
Reid, Co. Kildare & Dublin
Cox, Barnack Northamptonshire
Edwards, Pagham, Sussex & area
Scott, Roxburghshire & Perthshire
Mitchell, Warwickshire
Savage, Hampshire
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JLo
RootsChat Senior
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Posts: 484
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Hi Richard & Chris
Richard - Goodness me you're doing well The furthest I had got back was William & Elizabeth so far
The information you have on them certainly seems to fit and the siblings names match with the names of William & Elizabeth's children. Have you made a definite link between 'our' William and the christening in Luton? (sorry to be cautious, but I've been caught out by William's before  ) Do you know who the baby Elizabeth belongs to who is on the 1841 census with William? I'd be interested in what other info you have as I have nothing on William b1805 other than his christening! I am descended from his younger brother George b1818. Also interested in the two possible Joseph's, they both look fascinating. There's a lot for me to take in here
Chris - It looks like the link (if there is one) is going to prove a bit more difficult than we thought  I am still planning to go to HALs, unfortunately ordinary life takes over sometimes especially around Christmas (currently stuck at home with a child with chicken pox!!)
It looks like I've got some reading to do...
Julie
PS That Your Archives site looks fascinating - I'm going to go and delve
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukMarshall, Beeson (Herts) Lo(e)wenthal,Kavanagh, Maxam (London, Birmingham) Harrisson, Matthews (London, Essex) Poulton, Philbrick (Essex) Guest, Timmins (Staffs) Raynes/Ryall (Ireland, Birmingham) White (Bucks) Gunn (Scotland, Lancs, Essex) Ison (Tamworth, Birmingham, USA, Canada) |
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RichardK
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 210
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Julie
Thanks for your message. In essence, all the sightings of William Marshall (1776-1847) which actually specify locations rather than just parishes point to the area around Chiltern Green, which is on the border of Luton, Kimpton and King's Walden.
I've got William's death certificate, which shows he died at The Heath, King's Walden on 14 Nov 1847, aged 72. This points to a birth from 1774 or 1775, give or take a bit to allow for people's uncertainty about their exact dates of birth in those days. The Luton parish records note that the William christened in January 1776 was from Chiltern Green. William and Elizabeth married in Luton in 1803 and their marriage record does not suggest that either of them lived outside the parish of Luton at that time. When Elizabeth was buried in 1826, she was buried at Luton, but a note in the records says she lived in King's Walden parish - perhaps suggesting that she lived close to the border. The final sighting I have of William before his death is the 1841 census, when he was at Diamond End, which is in the parish of King's Walden but also very close to Chiltern Green (I'm afraid I don't know who the baby Elizabeth is, but nor have I tried to work it out yet!)
William and Elizabeth's son William (1805-1863) certainly stayed in the Chiltern Green area - he married Sarah Almond (1809-1868) at King's Walden in 1830 and their children were born variously at Lawrence End, Someries and Newmill End. In the 1841 and 1851 censuses they were living at East Hyde and Newmill End (by 1861 they'd moved to Albert Road in the town). This William also died at The Heath in King's Walden - he was killed after falling from and being run over by his horse and cart whilst delivering beer for the brewery he worked for. I've got a transcript of the report of the inquest from the local paper (Hertfordshire Express, Aug 1863).
In addition to these records all seemingly pointing to the same area, the recurrence of names - including the relatively unusual Phoebe - seems to suggest a connection.
I know there's never definitive proof in these things, but that's what I've used.
Regards
Richard.
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Kelly, Birkenhead & Co. Kildare
Marshall, Luton & area
Reid, Co. Kildare & Dublin
Cox, Barnack Northamptonshire
Edwards, Pagham, Sussex & area
Scott, Roxburghshire & Perthshire
Mitchell, Warwickshire
Savage, Hampshire
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JLo
RootsChat Senior
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Posts: 484
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Thanks Richard
I must admit I thought the name Phoebe was an important link.
George also stayed around the area living at Breachwood Green at the plaiting school (straw plaiting of course being very much based in Luton). He also died in the Luton parish - although I haven't got his death cert yet so don't know exactly where. Living close to three borders certainly doesn't make this easy does it 
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukMarshall, Beeson (Herts) Lo(e)wenthal,Kavanagh, Maxam (London, Birmingham) Harrisson, Matthews (London, Essex) Poulton, Philbrick (Essex) Guest, Timmins (Staffs) Raynes/Ryall (Ireland, Birmingham) White (Bucks) Gunn (Scotland, Lancs, Essex) Ison (Tamworth, Birmingham, USA, Canada) |
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