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Topic: 1891 census St.Albans - RAND (Read 167 times)
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Phil Goater
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I am investigating the ancestry of Ellen Rand whose birth was registered in the June quarter of 1887 in St.Albans. I know that her father was involved in making straw boaters and therefore suspect that her parents were John and Sarah Rand. I would appreciate confirmation of this and any further background information that might ensue.
Regards,
Phil
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Newf
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There ya go me old china ...
1891 - RG12/1115; Folio 23; Page 39 - Sandridge, St Albans
Bernard Street
John Rand 33 Head Straw Boat Blocker Hertford
Sarah Rand 36 Wife do Sewer St Albans
Elizabeth Rand 18 dau Silk Winder do
Kate Rand 10 dau do
John Rand 8 son do
William Rand 6 son do
Ellen Rand 4 dau do
Maud Rand 2 dau do
Rose Rand 5/12 dau do
given the gap twixt 2 oldest girls, i'd say someone is on a 2nd marriage ....
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk PLEDGER – 1678, Gt BardField, Essex EVERETT - 1830, Scoles, Norfolk & Epping, SX OSGATHORPE - 1825, North Kensington LILLEY – 1711, Ickleton, Cambs DAVISON – 1700-1710, Horncastle & Coningsby, Lincs BOWER – 1690-1700, Killinworth, Lincs CHASE – 1735, Kings Lynn, Norfolk LAIRD – 1777, Portsmouth, Hants & Kings Lynn, Norfolk GOWENLOCK – |
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Phil Goater
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Cheers Newf,
That's great. You're right about the gap signifying something - in the 1881 census Elizabeth is shown as Elizabeth George, daughter-in -iaw and there is a record on FreeBMD of John Rand marrying Sarah George. However, I haven't found any trace of a previous marriage for Sarah yet which I would expect to be in the St.Albans area. Is there any sign of a Sarah George aged 6 in the 1861 census for St.Albans? I'd be grateful for any information going back for either John or Sarah,
Regards,
Phil
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Newf
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Replied earlier, but I think theres been another d/base issue.
Will do it again later ..... but in short, yes there was a Sarah G around, in the Straw Hat business - father was a Publican.
John R couldnt be seen in 1861; in 1871 he was with Mary Rand, his Grandmother in the Colney Heath area of the St Albans Regn District ...
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk PLEDGER – 1678, Gt BardField, Essex EVERETT - 1830, Scoles, Norfolk & Epping, SX OSGATHORPE - 1825, North Kensington LILLEY – 1711, Ickleton, Cambs DAVISON – 1700-1710, Horncastle & Coningsby, Lincs BOWER – 1690-1700, Killinworth, Lincs CHASE – 1735, Kings Lynn, Norfolk LAIRD – 1777, Portsmouth, Hants & Kings Lynn, Norfolk GOWENLOCK – |
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Phil Goater
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I saw your 'missing' contribution Newf and posted a thank you and a reply before getting my head down after a night shift. Thanks again anyway! I'd be grateful if you could repeat the missing items.
I was wondering if you could find John's grandma in the 1861 census?
I'm also struck by the family tradition of making straw hats. Is there any information on this industry?
Is it a coincidence that they came from Hatfield ?!
Thanks anyway,
Phil
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Newf
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1861 - RG9/831; Folio: 27; Page: 48 - St Albans, St Michael
Portland Arms, Poundfield
All born St Albans
Charles George 40 Head Publican
Sarah George 39 Wife Hat Maker
Emily George 16 dau Hat Sewer
Louisa George 16 dau Hat Maker
Harry George 12 son Ironfounders Labourer
Eliza George 10 dau Straw Plaiters
Sarah George 8 dau do
Ernest George 6 son scholar
Joseph Woodward 37 Unmarried Bro In Law Servant
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk PLEDGER – 1678, Gt BardField, Essex EVERETT - 1830, Scoles, Norfolk & Epping, SX OSGATHORPE - 1825, North Kensington LILLEY – 1711, Ickleton, Cambs DAVISON – 1700-1710, Horncastle & Coningsby, Lincs BOWER – 1690-1700, Killinworth, Lincs CHASE – 1735, Kings Lynn, Norfolk LAIRD – 1777, Portsmouth, Hants & Kings Lynn, Norfolk GOWENLOCK – |
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Newf
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Couldnt see JR in 1861 ... nor Grandmother Mary 
1871 - RG10/1378; Folio: 123; Page: 5 - St Albans, Sleap and Smallford (Colney Heath ?)
Boe / Roe Green ??
Mary Rand 72 Widow Head Hatfield
John Rand 14 Grandson Ag Lab Hatfield
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk PLEDGER – 1678, Gt BardField, Essex EVERETT - 1830, Scoles, Norfolk & Epping, SX OSGATHORPE - 1825, North Kensington LILLEY – 1711, Ickleton, Cambs DAVISON – 1700-1710, Horncastle & Coningsby, Lincs BOWER – 1690-1700, Killinworth, Lincs CHASE – 1735, Kings Lynn, Norfolk LAIRD – 1777, Portsmouth, Hants & Kings Lynn, Norfolk GOWENLOCK – |
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Newf
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The word "milliner", a maker of women's hats, was first recorded in 1529 when the term referred to products for which northern Italy and especially the area around Milan was well known. The Haberdashers in England who imported these fashionable straw hats were called "Millaners" from which the word "Milliner" eventually derived.
It was this importing of foreign and alleged inferior materials that inspired the 7,000 hatters in the City of London and surrounding areas to petition Queen Elizabeth T to grant them independence from the Guild of Haberdashers and resulted a century later in the incorporation of the Worshipful Company of Feltmakers whose function was to protect the profession of hat making, to nurture young apprentices and to look after those who could no longer work.
It was the availability of straw in the Bedfordshire area that led to the development of the hat industry and plaiting schools throughout the Bedfordshire, Buckinghamshire and Hertfordshire counties. Governments in their times, in order to promote supplementary and alternative industry in agricultural areas, often tried to replicate the plaiting schools in other parts of the United Kingdom, unfortunately without success. By the 17th century the industry of straw hat making was firmly established in the "Beds, Bucks. and Herts" area. In 1689 when the straw hat makers were petitioning against a Bill to encourage the wearing of woollen headwear there were already over 14000 people in the Luton and Dunstable area alone living solely by making straw hats. Further in the North of England the centre of the Gentleman's felt and cloth hat industry thrived.
In the middle of the 18th century it was fashionable for rich ladies to dress as country girls. A wide brimmed straw hat completed the look. At the end of the century the waistline rose and the poke bonnet evolved.
Quite a lot of info out there if you 'google' !
http://www.hertfordshire-genealogy.co.uk/data/topics/t012-strawhats.htm
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk PLEDGER – 1678, Gt BardField, Essex EVERETT - 1830, Scoles, Norfolk & Epping, SX OSGATHORPE - 1825, North Kensington LILLEY – 1711, Ickleton, Cambs DAVISON – 1700-1710, Horncastle & Coningsby, Lincs BOWER – 1690-1700, Killinworth, Lincs CHASE – 1735, Kings Lynn, Norfolk LAIRD – 1777, Portsmouth, Hants & Kings Lynn, Norfolk GOWENLOCK – |
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Phil Goater
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Thank you very much Newf for patiently reproducing the lost information and providing me with more!
My wife commented that Hatfield featured in Tudor times as she'd come across it in her historical studies
so it makes sense that it was a well established industry!
As I recall Mary Rand re-appeared at the 1964 Tokyo Olympics but it would be nice to trace her whereabouts and offspring at the start of the 19th century! Still, nice to have a mystery to unravel!
Cheers,
Phil
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Newf
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As I recall Mary Rand re-appeared at the 1964 Tokyo Olympics 
at last !
A sense of humour on RootsChat
I havent delved into the IGI - not sure what Parish Records might be around for Hatfield .....
Good luck with future research 
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk PLEDGER – 1678, Gt BardField, Essex EVERETT - 1830, Scoles, Norfolk & Epping, SX OSGATHORPE - 1825, North Kensington LILLEY – 1711, Ickleton, Cambs DAVISON – 1700-1710, Horncastle & Coningsby, Lincs BOWER – 1690-1700, Killinworth, Lincs CHASE – 1735, Kings Lynn, Norfolk LAIRD – 1777, Portsmouth, Hants & Kings Lynn, Norfolk GOWENLOCK – |
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Newf
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Hi Phil - ref your PM and discovery that it seems that Sarah shown in 1861 is still with parents Chas abnd Sarah in 1881 ....
In 1871 that family from 1861 are still in the Pub, altho Charles is no longer stating he's a publican.
1871 - RG10/1379; Folio: 85; Page: 35 - St Albans, St Michael
Portland Arms
All born St Albans
Charles George 52 Head Hat Presser
Sarah George 46 Wife Plait Sewer
Harry George 21 son Hat Blocker
Louisa George 2?? dau Plait Sewer
Sarah George 18 dau do
Ernest George 17 son Brush Maker
Eleanor George 5
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk PLEDGER – 1678, Gt BardField, Essex EVERETT - 1830, Scoles, Norfolk & Epping, SX OSGATHORPE - 1825, North Kensington LILLEY – 1711, Ickleton, Cambs DAVISON – 1700-1710, Horncastle & Coningsby, Lincs BOWER – 1690-1700, Killinworth, Lincs CHASE – 1735, Kings Lynn, Norfolk LAIRD – 1777, Portsmouth, Hants & Kings Lynn, Norfolk GOWENLOCK – |
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Newf
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The 1881 find is a different parish, and a dau Ellen who should be around in 1871 but isnt ... could be the Eleanor I guess ??
RG11/1431; Folio: 89; Page: 35 - St Albans, St Peter
Inkermann Road
Chas George H 60 Straw hat blocker
Sarah George W 55
Sarah George D 26 Machinist (Straw)
Ellen George D 16 Machinist (Straw)
Maud George D 4
ages are otherwise very close
I didnt see a 2nd Chas/Sarah family in earlier years tho ......
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk PLEDGER – 1678, Gt BardField, Essex EVERETT - 1830, Scoles, Norfolk & Epping, SX OSGATHORPE - 1825, North Kensington LILLEY – 1711, Ickleton, Cambs DAVISON – 1700-1710, Horncastle & Coningsby, Lincs BOWER – 1690-1700, Killinworth, Lincs CHASE – 1735, Kings Lynn, Norfolk LAIRD – 1777, Portsmouth, Hants & Kings Lynn, Norfolk GOWENLOCK – |
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Newf
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Going back to the 1871 .... the only other likely lass (apart from the affluent Farmers daughter mentioned before) is:-
1871 - RG10/1378; Folio: 37; Page: 12 - St Albans, St Peter
St Peter Street
Charlotte Saunders 76 Head Straw Plaiter Luton, Beds
William Cordel 51 son in law Brickies Lab St Albans
William Cordel 25 grandson Silk Throwster?
Mary A Cordel 24 grand dau do
Henry Cordel 20 gson do
George Cordel 17 gson Labourer
John Cordel 14 gson Silk Throwster?
Sarah George 17 Grand dau Straw Hat Sewer St Albans
Didnt see this lot in 1861 !
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk PLEDGER – 1678, Gt BardField, Essex EVERETT - 1830, Scoles, Norfolk & Epping, SX OSGATHORPE - 1825, North Kensington LILLEY – 1711, Ickleton, Cambs DAVISON – 1700-1710, Horncastle & Coningsby, Lincs BOWER – 1690-1700, Killinworth, Lincs CHASE – 1735, Kings Lynn, Norfolk LAIRD – 1777, Portsmouth, Hants & Kings Lynn, Norfolk GOWENLOCK – |
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Newf
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The thot plickens !
1861 - RG9/829; Folio: 33; Page: 11 - St Albans, St Peter
St Peters Street, Cock Lane
James Saunders 58 Head Roadsman St Albans
Charlotte Saunders 64 Wife Luton, Beds
William Saunders 20 son Luton, Beds
Sarah Saunders 7 dau scholar Luton, Beds
Henry Robinson 28 son in law Ag Lab Watford
Sarah Robinson 24 dau Wife of above St Albans
So the circumstantial evidence says its likely to be the same Sarah ... but now a daughter ! and born Luton ..... Lets see if theres an older daughter of James and Charlotte back in 1851 ?
You might end up having to purchase a Birth Cert ...
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk PLEDGER – 1678, Gt BardField, Essex EVERETT - 1830, Scoles, Norfolk & Epping, SX OSGATHORPE - 1825, North Kensington LILLEY – 1711, Ickleton, Cambs DAVISON – 1700-1710, Horncastle & Coningsby, Lincs BOWER – 1690-1700, Killinworth, Lincs CHASE – 1735, Kings Lynn, Norfolk LAIRD – 1777, Portsmouth, Hants & Kings Lynn, Norfolk GOWENLOCK – |
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Newf
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Here they are in 1851 - maybe some clues with the daughters' names ?
1851 - HO107/1713; Folio: 272; Page: 20 - St Albans, St Peters
Cock Lane
James Sanders 50 Head Brewers Man St Albans
Charlotte Sanders 51 Wife Washerwoman Luton Beds
Elizabeth Sanders 19 dau Silk Winder St Peters
Sarah Sanders 17 dau do do
Thomas Sanders 12 son do do
William Sanders 10 son do do
Henry Roberson 20 Visitor ??
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk PLEDGER – 1678, Gt BardField, Essex EVERETT - 1830, Scoles, Norfolk & Epping, SX OSGATHORPE - 1825, North Kensington LILLEY – 1711, Ickleton, Cambs DAVISON – 1700-1710, Horncastle & Coningsby, Lincs BOWER – 1690-1700, Killinworth, Lincs CHASE – 1735, Kings Lynn, Norfolk LAIRD – 1777, Portsmouth, Hants & Kings Lynn, Norfolk GOWENLOCK – |
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