|
Pages: [1] 2
|
 |
|
Author
|
Topic: how can travellers be in the bricklaying business? (Read 1224 times)
|
chafox
RootsChat Extra
 Offline
Posts: 17
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
I recently found more instances of members of my hawker and traveller families calling themselves bricklayers.
There was a van in a meadow in 1881, in which there were dealers in earthenware, hawkers and bricklayers living together.
How does this use of the term bricklayer difffer from what we call bricklaying today? What exactly were they doing?
Terry
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: Friday 16 November 07 20:31 GMT (UK) by chafox »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
rebekahm28
RootsChat Extra
Offline
Posts: 61
|
If it was 1881, it wouldnt be a deal different!
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Beswick, Roberts, Sladen, Astell, England, Mander, Osborne, Krilovs, Elliott, Brooks, Wilkins, Markham, Raven, Mycock, Johnson, Woodrow, Perry, Overton, Rollings, Seeney, Durber, Kirkbright, Charley, Cleaver, Wilkes, Cotton, Olds, Waine, Evans, Gilbert, Grisold, Price, Wheelhouse.
|
|
|
BlandTree
RootsChat Extra
Offline
Posts: 28
|
You don't give any names, dates or locations.
I am currently looking at Goughs in the Thringstone area of Leicestershire in the early 1800s. They were hawkers and travellers but one branch emigrated to Yorkshire and became brick makers.
Does any of this tie in with your research?
Malcolm
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
BlandTree
RootsChat Extra
Offline
Posts: 28
|
Sorry to disagree NEIKE, but a journeyman did not, necessarily, move "to different places within their area so they would be where their skills were needed".
Men who wished to follow a skilled trade first became apprentices and were taken on solely to learn the trade. They received no pay but board and lodging was provided, though often this was very meagre. When they had finished their apprenticeship, which could be upwards of seven years, if there was a vacancy within the guild for a qualified person, they became journeymen. This simply meant that they could work for payment. The name is taken from the French 'journee' meaning a day and they were paid daily for their work. They were the basic level of skilled worker. Today one might hear, for example, a carpenter referred to as a journeyman joiner, meaning that his work is very 'run of the mill' or, ordinary.
If a vacancy occurred for a top level worker in their chosen trade, they would be asked to provide a special example of their work. This was called a master piece and, if it was good enough they would be elected a master craftsman. At this level they were paid for jobs done and would employ journeymen to help with the work, paying them daily and, if the work was not up to standard the journeyman would be paid off and told not to report for work the next day.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
behindthefrogs
RootsChat Marquessate
Offline
Posts: 3403
EDLIN
|
hope this will be of help traveler's these days tend to work on road tarmacking and small jobs like repairing peoples drives.But i would have thought in them days their be no reason why they couldn't be bricklayers moving from one job to another similar to a jouneyman who moved to different places with in their area so they would were there skills were needed.
This is a complete misinterpetation of the term journeyman. A journeyman was a skilled worker who had completed his apprenticeship. Originally he would have been paid by the day which explains the derivation of the term from the French journee meaning by the day. He would not yet have established himself as a master tradesman who usually had his own business, but would be employed by a master often the one with whom he served his apprenticeship. It is extremely unlikely that he would be travelling around.
David
Sorry I am repeating what Blandtree said as i was interupte by a phonecall.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Living in Berkshire. Origin Northampton & Milton Keynes DETAILS OF THE FOLLOWING NAMES CAN BE FOUND IN SURNAME INTERESTS AT FOOT OF PAGE Wilson, Higgs, Buswell, PARCELL, Matthews, TAMKIN, Seckington, Pates, Williams, Webb, Arthur, MAYNARD, Caves, Norman, Winch, Culverhouse, Drakeley. Johnson, Routledge, SHIRT, SAICH, Mills, SAUNDERS, EDLIN, Perry, Vickers, Pakeman, Griffiths, Marston, Turner, Child, Sheen, Gray, Woolhouse Census Info is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
|
|
Maggott
RootsChat Senior
Offline
Posts: 335
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
I wonder if working in brickyards was something that travellers did, rather as they tarmac drives today? Just a thought, because my Davis connections (who were Gipsies) settled and found work in the Reigate brickyard towards the end of 19th cent. This gives us families of travellers in differernt parts of the country all doing something other than the usual traveller 'cottage' industries. And I suppose that the 19th cent building boom was also a boom for the brick industry & they took on a lot of new staff
Maggott
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
honey-roma88
RootsChat Senior
Offline
Posts: 270
Grandad Cecil
|
I too have found bricklayers aplenty among my ancestors. They also worked as rag and bone men, hawkers, watercress sellers etc but then worked as bricklayers. I suppose when labour was needed in an area where they were settled for a while they would take up the job. I can't think of any particular connection except that I suppose it was casual labour and could be done anywhere unlike an office job.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Romany/Traveller:
BLACKMAN, BUCKLAND, BURGESS, DIX, DOBSON, FOLEY, GRANT/PARKER, HUNT, JONES, MUNDAY/MONDAY, MORGAN, NOYELL, ORCHARD, PAGE, REED, VINCENT
Jewish:
BRAHAM, FROST, LYONS
French:
HONEYSETT, LEVETT PETTIT
English:
BELSHAW, BETTSWORTH, CANE, COVENTRY, DOBSON, FRY, NURSE, POOK, PUTLAND, PUTT, SMITH, SNELGROVE, TEE, TUDGAY, VENUS/VENESS
Irish:
ANDERSON, KILLOUGH, MACCORMACK, MACROBERTS, MORTON, MOORE, WALLACE
|
|
|
BlandTree
RootsChat Extra
Offline
Posts: 28
|
Hmm... there are so many examples given in this thread that I am beginning to suspect that there is some connection between being a traveller or hawker and moving on into the brick making industry, but I don't buy into the 'brick making = road mending' theory.
In the case I am researching the family moved from its roots in Leicestershire and worked up through Yorkshire to Roecliffe brickyard, where they settled. The first generation worked up through the ranks to become Manager of this brickyard and the second generation did likewise and even moved to nearby brickyards which they also managed.
This is a significant move up the social scale... but why? And what is the connection between Travelling and settling down to make tiles and bricks? 
BlandTree
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Maggott
RootsChat Senior
Offline
Posts: 335
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
By chance the local paper published an article a week or so ago about the brickworks at Chinnor, in Oxfordshire. I haven't got the paper to hand but I seem to remember it saying that brick-yard work was heavy & dirty. So I suppose it was one job that 'marginal' people -our travelling anacestors - were able to get. And from their point of view at least it brought in regular money - more so, surely, than hawking, metalwork & so on.
Maggott
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
honey-roma88
RootsChat Senior
Offline
Posts: 270
Grandad Cecil
|
My family who ventured into bricklaying were mainly bricklayer's labourers rather than bricklayers...I'm not sure if there is a difference. I have a photo of some of the bricklayers my great, great grandad worked with and it certainly doesn't look like tidy work.
My grandad is the one leaning up against the pole near the back. This is in Battersea in the late 1890s/early 1900s if anyone is interested. 
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t226/honeysett88/sc00127d6801.jpg
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Romany/Traveller:
BLACKMAN, BUCKLAND, BURGESS, DIX, DOBSON, FOLEY, GRANT/PARKER, HUNT, JONES, MUNDAY/MONDAY, MORGAN, NOYELL, ORCHARD, PAGE, REED, VINCENT
Jewish:
BRAHAM, FROST, LYONS
French:
HONEYSETT, LEVETT PETTIT
English:
BELSHAW, BETTSWORTH, CANE, COVENTRY, DOBSON, FRY, NURSE, POOK, PUTLAND, PUTT, SMITH, SNELGROVE, TEE, TUDGAY, VENUS/VENESS
Irish:
ANDERSON, KILLOUGH, MACCORMACK, MACROBERTS, MORTON, MOORE, WALLACE
|
|
|
silvery
RootsChat Aristocrat
Offline
Posts: 1483
information Crown Copyright, from www.nation
|
What a great picture. I have bricklayers too at about that time, only in Macclesfield and Manchester. It's really interesting to see what they wore. would you mind if I had a copy? I suppose they must have been all about the same as far as clothes go.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
honey-roma88
RootsChat Senior
Offline
Posts: 270
Grandad Cecil
|
What a great picture. I have bricklayers too at about that time, only in Macclesfield and Manchester. It's really interesting to see what they wore. would you mind if I had a copy? I suppose they must have been all about the same as far as clothes go.
I don't mind at all. Can you just save it yourself or would you like me to e-mail it to you. Just pm me if you want it e-mailed.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Romany/Traveller:
BLACKMAN, BUCKLAND, BURGESS, DIX, DOBSON, FOLEY, GRANT/PARKER, HUNT, JONES, MUNDAY/MONDAY, MORGAN, NOYELL, ORCHARD, PAGE, REED, VINCENT
Jewish:
BRAHAM, FROST, LYONS
French:
HONEYSETT, LEVETT PETTIT
English:
BELSHAW, BETTSWORTH, CANE, COVENTRY, DOBSON, FRY, NURSE, POOK, PUTLAND, PUTT, SMITH, SNELGROVE, TEE, TUDGAY, VENUS/VENESS
Irish:
ANDERSON, KILLOUGH, MACCORMACK, MACROBERTS, MORTON, MOORE, WALLACE
|
|
|
silvery
RootsChat Aristocrat
Offline
Posts: 1483
information Crown Copyright, from www.nation
|
I can save it myself but kind of you to ask, appreciated. I do love the old photos and I have so very few, so anything is lovely when I write up my families. It makes things so much more real.
Did you notice that your grandad has a hand on his shoulder of another of the men. I did wonder if it may be his father.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
silvery
RootsChat Aristocrat
Offline
Posts: 1483
information Crown Copyright, from www.nation
|
Just another thought - did you ever put it on the photo restoration board?
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2
|
|
|
|
|
