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Topic: William Fox b. Boston c.1821/2 (Read 127 times)
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foxwoods
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 4
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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All we know about the above, who was a 2xgt gfather to Julia Fox is that his mother was Mary Fox and he was b. as described. In 1822 he m. Ann Clark on 19th Dec 1841 at St Mary's Sculcoates (Hull) and had sons John Nelson Fox and Charles H (poss Henry) Fox. He gave his occupation as "mariner". We do not know who his father was or anything about his mother. This is our brick wall, can any one help please?
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foxwoods
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 4
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Greetings Jill,
Thank you very much for taking the trouble to reply to our query about William Fox. We actually have a copy of the certificate to the wedding you refer to and have always been intrigued by William's use of a second forename. Is it a clue to his father? William appears to have filled in the certificate himself and his handwriting is beautiful. But he did not give a name for his father! Was he deceased? Did William know who his father was? Was William ashamed of him?
By comparision with William his bride "made her mark" so was, we presume, illiterate.
We have also seen the IGI entry. It is one of only 2 baptisms of boys named William Fox in or near Boston at about the right date. The other one gives the father's name (coincidentally John Fox and his wife Ann) and although we have no proof we favour the thought that he was the son of Mary because the father's name is not given. We even had the local Family History Society look into this mystery and they are as puzzled as we are. They examined the parish registers on our behalf but found they gave nothing away. Normally children born out of wedlock were denoted in the parish register in some way even if the father was not named or not known. Likewise if a father is deceased this is usually recorded.
We are also intrigued by William's choice of second forename for his elder son, "Nelson" (b. 1846 some time after Trafalgar) could this have been influenced by the Nelson family who had baptisms recorded in Boston in the same IGI batch? Moreover both sons share 1st forenames (John and Charles) with the other sons of John and Ann Fox.
Regards Julia and David
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JillJ
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1550
Exhumation is my game
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Hi Julia & David,
Here are a few bits relating to John Nelson Fox:
Births:
John Nelson Fox Bet. Apr-Jun 1846 Kingston Upon Hull Vol. 22 Page 488
Marriages:
John Nelson Fox Bet. Oct-Dec 1863 Sculcoates Vol 9d Page 341
Probably to Mary Ann Hyam
1881 Census: 23 Warwick St., Southcoates, Hull. RG11/4754/11/15
John N. Fox/Head/Mar/36/Labourer/Hull, Yorks.
Mary A. Fox/Wife/Mar/36/Wigan, Lancs.
Robert W. Fox/Son/17/Fisherman boy/Hull, Yorks.
Eliza Fox/Dau/13/Scholar/Hull, Yorks.
Albert Fox/Son/9/Scholar/Hull, Yorks.
William Fox/Son/6/Hull, Yorks.
John N. Fox/Son/3/Hull, Yorks.
Mary A. Fox/Dau/1/Hull, Yorks.
1891 Census: 4 Georges Terrace, Myton, Kingston-upon-Hull. RG12/3942/18/2
John Nelson Fox/Head/M/48/Boilermaker's Labourer/Hull, Yorks.
Mary Ann Fox/Wife/M/45/Wigan, Lancs.
Albert Fox/Son/S/19/Rullyman/Hull, Yorks.
William Fox/Son/S/16/Labourer (Wood Yard)/Hull, Yorks.
John Nelson Fox/Son/13/Scholar/Hull, Yorks.
Mary Ann Fox/Dau/S/11/Scholar/Hull, Yorks.
Charles Henry Fox/Son/9/Scholar/Hull, Yorks.
Edith Ethel Fox/Dau/7/Scholar/Hull, Yorks.
Rose Elinor Fox/Dau/4/Scholar/Hull, Yorks.
William James Forfitt/Boarder/S/16/Signalman (Railway)/Hull, Yorks.
1901 Census: 2 Pettingell Ter., Daltry St., Myton, Hull. RG13/4505/136/24
John N. Fox/Head/M/55/Driller S.P.R./Worker/Hull, Yorks.
Mary A. Fox/Wife/M/55/Bury, Lancs.
Edith E. Fox/Dau/S/17/Fruiterers Shop Assistant/Worker/Hull, Yorks.
I've also seen a death entry for a John Nelson Fox who was born in 1910 - probably a grandson.
The other William born in Boston in 1821 was a Stone Mason and ended up in London, so I think you can discount him. My guess is that your William was illegitimate and it isn't the first time I've come across children who have gained a middle name after baptism!
The 'Nelson' name could possibly be a family surname - maybe Ann Clark's mother's maiden name?
I haven't been able to locate either William or Ann as yet, but I'll keep looking!
Jill
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Jowett, Broadbent & Ellis in Leeds. Perry, Hartshorn/e & Wilkes in Birmingham & Dudley. Walker and Dabill in Sheffield & Notts. Farrar in Darlington. Kidd & Taylor in Hartlepool & Teesside Census information is crown copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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JillJ
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1550
Exhumation is my game
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Hello again,
Now I'm getting confused! I haven't been able to find John Nelson Fox in any earlier censuses so I searched for his wife Mary Ann. This looks like her and her children, but is it...?
1871 Census: 7 Feather Lane, Drypool, Kingston Upon Hull.
RG10/4779/94/33 & 34
Charles Fox/Head/Mar/25/Labourer in Iron Yard/Hull, Yorks.
Mary A. Fox/Wife/Mar/26/Wigan, Lancs.
Robert Fox/Son/7/Scholar/Hull, Yorks.
Anne Fox/Dau/6/Hull, Yorks
Eliza Fox/Dau/2/Hull, Yorks.
The only birth I've been able to find for a Charles Henry Fox is between Oct-Nov 1850, Kingston Upon Hull district, Vol. 22 Page 482.
By the way, it is doubtful your William filled in his own marriage certificate! If this is a copy you obtained from the GRO it is just that - everything has been copied in the same handwriting, including the signatures.
Jill
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Jowett, Broadbent & Ellis in Leeds. Perry, Hartshorn/e & Wilkes in Birmingham & Dudley. Walker and Dabill in Sheffield & Notts. Farrar in Darlington. Kidd & Taylor in Hartlepool & Teesside Census information is crown copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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GeoffE
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1770
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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Hello again,
Now I'm getting confused! I haven't been able to find John Nelson Fox in any earlier censuses so I searched for his wife Mary Ann. This looks like her and her children, but is it...?
1871 Census: 7 Feather Lane, Drypool, Kingston Upon Hull.
RG10/4779/94/33 & 34
Charles Fox/Head/Mar/25/Labourer in Iron Yard/Hull, Yorks.
Mary A. Fox/Wife/Mar/26/Wigan, Lancs.
Robert Fox/Son/7/Scholar/Hull, Yorks.
Anne Fox/Dau/6/Hull, Yorks
Eliza Fox/Dau/2/Hull, Yorks.
By the way, it is doubtful your William filled in his own marriage certificate! If this is a copy you obtained from the GRO it is just that - everything has been copied in the same handwriting, including the signatures.
I'm sure the Charles is just a mistranscription, inconvenient but not disastrous. Everything else seems to be a reasonable match.
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The more I practice, the luckier I seem to get.
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foxwoods
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 4
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Greetings again Jill,
Thank you for taking further trouble but, and I hate to have to say this, we already knew a great deal about the Fox family, from the birth of John Nelson in 1846 through to the present day. Julia is the dau of Harold Fox (1908-85) who was a son of Charles Henry Fox (1891-1955) who in turn was a son of John Nelson Fox (1846-1910)and Mary Ann (nee Hyam). Do you have any connection with this family?
Did you know that John Nelson died as a result of an industrial accident? An inquest was held on 11 July 1910 following his "accidental fall to the ground on 20 June (resulting in) haemorrphage on brain (leading to) pneumonia syncope P.M." according to his death certificate.
We can confirm that "our" John Nelson had a son "John N" b. c.1878 in Hull and he was in the Turkish bath business.
We had similar difficulties with the 1871 census and ultimately came to the same conclusion as you. We found a similar transcription error in 1881 for the family of Mary Ann Hyam where her father's name is given as "Jame" when the original image shows "Wm" (abbreviation for William).
Have you noticed that the Hyams came from Wigan Lancs? William and several others worked in cotton mills and in those days there were flax mills in Hull. did they bring their experience over with them? what happened to Mary Ann's mother Margaret? In Hull William is shown on census returns as married to An n who was less than 15 years older than Mary Ann.
Regards David and Julia.
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foxwoods
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 4
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Sorry Jill.
We have obviously confused you in a hurry to get off line and allow Julia to use the phone! (We do not have broad band in the UK only in Spain where we spend most of our time). William Hyams was the flax mill worker(actually a blacksmith) and William Fox was a mariner.
If we could find a way to export documents written in MSW Word onto Roots Web we would happily send you the 9 pages of documents we have written about William Fox plus the 1 page in MSXL showing Julia's father's pedigree. The latter is also on Ancestry OWT and Genes Reunited. If you subscribe to either or both of these please request permission to view.
Regards Julia and David Woods
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