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Topic: A mystery first marriage: 1830s-1850s (Read 1084 times)
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AndrewMartin
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Posts: 188
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Hi Sue,
Thanks again for your help. The pieces of this new jumbled jigsaw are all beginning to fall in to place.
At this rate, by Christmas, i'll have discovered a whole 'new me'. 
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Andrew Martin Cambridge, England. www.familytreeuk.co.ukResearching: BABBIDGE, BAILEY, BARBER, BARKER, BISHOP, BOULTER, BOWERS, BURNELL, COOPER, CROSS, DEWEY, DEWSBURY, FREEMAN, GAWTHROP, GIDDINGS, GIGNER, GILBERT, GILLIONS, GOLTRIP, GOTHARD, HAWKINS, JEFFERY, LEVITT, MARTIN, MODEN, NEWMAN, NEWELL, TAYLOR, TINGEY, WATERS, WHITEHEAD, YARROW. |
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AndrewMartin
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Posts: 188
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Avis' age of 35 is obviously wrong in 1841 for even if she were 39 she would still be too young to be married and having a child in 1813. In fact in 1851 Aves Wisbe was 58 born Downham which looks much more realistic.
Looking at the Burial Index there's a Robert Martin aged 41 buried at Downham in 1826 which might well be Avis' first husband and father of Robert, and probably James too. If this is the right Robert then Avis would have remarried James Wisby earlier than I'd assumed and in fact the Henry Wisby(e) who appears in 1841/51 born 1830 is on the IGI as the son of James and Avis. I can't see a marriage of James Wisby and Avis Martin between 1826 and 1830 though.
Well, I've now received the marriage certificate for James Martin and Mary Ann Moxon. Unhelpfully, they are both 'full age' but it does tell me that they were of Robert Martin and John Moxon respectfully. However, it does not tell me that Robert Martin was deceased - an oversight? perhaps.
The witnesses were William Moxon and Eliza Webb. I've looked at the Moxons on the 1841 Little Downham census, which comes with the 20yr old James Martin too.. and William is, as expected, the brother and Eliza Webb lives next door on Main Street.
Flicking back through my research notes, i have records of baptisms of a Robert and Avis Martin up until 1824, when it's Robert Martin (the second's) turn. After that, Avis Martin vanishes... and a Robert Martin, like you said, turns up in the burials at Lt Downham in 1826.
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Andrew Martin Cambridge, England. www.familytreeuk.co.ukResearching: BABBIDGE, BAILEY, BARBER, BARKER, BISHOP, BOULTER, BOWERS, BURNELL, COOPER, CROSS, DEWEY, DEWSBURY, FREEMAN, GAWTHROP, GIDDINGS, GIGNER, GILBERT, GILLIONS, GOLTRIP, GOTHARD, HAWKINS, JEFFERY, LEVITT, MARTIN, MODEN, NEWMAN, NEWELL, TAYLOR, TINGEY, WATERS, WHITEHEAD, YARROW. |
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bedfordshire boy
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Posts: 3565
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It often happens that it's not mentioned that a father is deceased. The officiating person merely asked for father's name, but not if he was still alive, and the about to be newlywed didn't volunteer the information
David
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukBeds: Cople: Luke/Spencer Everton: Hale Henlow: Cooper/Watts/Sabey Potton: Merrill Southill: Faulkner/Litchfield/Sabey Woburn/Husborne Crawley: Surkitt Hunts: Gt Gransden: Merrill/Chandler/Medlock Toseland: Surkitt/Hedge/Corn Cambs: Bourn: Bowd Eltisley: Medlock Graveley: Ford/Revell |
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AndrewMartin
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Posts: 188
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It often happens that it's not mentioned that a father is deceased. The officiating person merely asked for father's name, but not if he was still alive, and the about to be newlywed didn't volunteer the information
David
well, Robert being deceased would explain why i cant find any eligible Robert Martin candidates in the area and it would go towards explaining why there is an Avis Wisby.... but... this does leave me with the James Martin living with the Moxons on Downham Main Street in 1841... AND living with James and Avis Wisby and Robert Martin Jnr elsewhere.
Did he appear twice or might it be two different Roberts? I'm not sure how to work that one out.
I know i need to go backwards with my Downham baptism notes as i've only got as far back as 1813 in my notes and my James Martin does not appear... yet his siblings do.
Once the records office re-opens, i'll have loads to research 
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Andrew Martin Cambridge, England. www.familytreeuk.co.ukResearching: BABBIDGE, BAILEY, BARBER, BARKER, BISHOP, BOULTER, BOWERS, BURNELL, COOPER, CROSS, DEWEY, DEWSBURY, FREEMAN, GAWTHROP, GIDDINGS, GIGNER, GILBERT, GILLIONS, GOLTRIP, GOTHARD, HAWKINS, JEFFERY, LEVITT, MARTIN, MODEN, NEWMAN, NEWELL, TAYLOR, TINGEY, WATERS, WHITEHEAD, YARROW. |
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AndrewMartin
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Posts: 188
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It seems I'm still stuck 
I purchased the Little Downham parish registers cd from the lovely CFHS and I have been right back through their baptism and marriage records (reaching back to 1558!) and there is a) no marriage for a Robert and Avis/Avice/Aves/Alice/Mavis; b) no Banns for them; c) no baptism for a James Martin of Robert Martin during the right time.
I did momentarily think i had the Robert baptism.. which would have linked me into the Martin/Waddelow dynasty of Littleport.. but then i realised that 'my' Robert was killed off aged >1yr... so that scuppered that.
The Marriage Indexes for pre-1837 Cambs and Hunts deposited at the Cambridge Archives does not include a suitable marriage... so i'm stuck.
I have no evidence that links the 1841 census James Martin at the house of Mary Ann Moxon (on their wedding even) to my family... nor the 1841 census James Martin who is living with his mother and step-father, Avis and James Wisbe - and a Robert Martin.
Maybe the parish concerned has not been indexed? Or they were non-conformists? Either way, it's like an annoying headache but one i'm determined to get solved.
Any help, as ever, is very much appreciated.
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Andrew Martin Cambridge, England. www.familytreeuk.co.ukResearching: BABBIDGE, BAILEY, BARBER, BARKER, BISHOP, BOULTER, BOWERS, BURNELL, COOPER, CROSS, DEWEY, DEWSBURY, FREEMAN, GAWTHROP, GIDDINGS, GIGNER, GILBERT, GILLIONS, GOLTRIP, GOTHARD, HAWKINS, JEFFERY, LEVITT, MARTIN, MODEN, NEWMAN, NEWELL, TAYLOR, TINGEY, WATERS, WHITEHEAD, YARROW. |
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suffolk*sue
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G.g.granny is out there somewhere
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Is it possible Avis' name could have been misheard or did you find Avis' baptism in the Downham registers.
Did it also say if she was a widow when she married Mr. Wisby?
Anyway the following marriage is on Boyds.
1811 / MARTIN ROBERT / UPCHURCH ANN / ELY HOLY TRINITY
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AndrewMartin
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 188
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Is it possible Avis' name could have been misheard or did you find Avis' baptism in the Downham registers.
Did it also say if she was a widow when she married Mr. Wisby?
Anyway the following marriage is on Boyds.
1811 / MARTIN ROBERT / UPCHURCH ANN / ELY HOLY TRINITY
Hi Sue, thanks for this. I did a search on findmypast.com last night and this marriage was amongst them.
The name 'Avis' appears on all of the baptisms in Lt Downham alongside Robert, apart from one, where she's noted as 'Avice'.
When she marries Mr Wisbe/Wisby in 1827, she is named Avis Martin (widow).
However, if you've picked up Ann Upchurch, i'll go back and check it as i have the whole EHT registers and maybe there will be a clue that leads to an 'Avis' name.
I recently had this elsewhere in a tree where a Vine Taylor turned out to be Sabina Steadman Taylor... and she'd inherited her name of 'Vine' from her "illegitimacy" father's younger dead sister (her mother married him years afterwards).
Thanks again for your suggestion, it's really useful to get someone else's opinion on these things when i've been staring at them for so long.
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Andrew Martin Cambridge, England. www.familytreeuk.co.ukResearching: BABBIDGE, BAILEY, BARBER, BARKER, BISHOP, BOULTER, BOWERS, BURNELL, COOPER, CROSS, DEWEY, DEWSBURY, FREEMAN, GAWTHROP, GIDDINGS, GIGNER, GILBERT, GILLIONS, GOLTRIP, GOTHARD, HAWKINS, JEFFERY, LEVITT, MARTIN, MODEN, NEWMAN, NEWELL, TAYLOR, TINGEY, WATERS, WHITEHEAD, YARROW. |
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AndrewMartin
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 188
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Is it possible Avis' name could have been misheard or did you find Avis' baptism in the Downham registers.
oh, and i meant to add that i've searched the whole of the Downham baptisms and banns for Avis, Avice, Aves, Alice, Mavis and found nothing that matches. I'll have a look at Ely tonight.
(fingers crossed)
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Andrew Martin Cambridge, England. www.familytreeuk.co.ukResearching: BABBIDGE, BAILEY, BARBER, BARKER, BISHOP, BOULTER, BOWERS, BURNELL, COOPER, CROSS, DEWEY, DEWSBURY, FREEMAN, GAWTHROP, GIDDINGS, GIGNER, GILBERT, GILLIONS, GOLTRIP, GOTHARD, HAWKINS, JEFFERY, LEVITT, MARTIN, MODEN, NEWMAN, NEWELL, TAYLOR, TINGEY, WATERS, WHITEHEAD, YARROW. |
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suffolk*sue
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Posts: 4386
G.g.granny is out there somewhere
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Good luck, hope it turns out to be the right lady.
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AndrewMartin
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 188
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Good luck, hope it turns out to be the right lady.
thanks
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Andrew Martin Cambridge, England. www.familytreeuk.co.ukResearching: BABBIDGE, BAILEY, BARBER, BARKER, BISHOP, BOULTER, BOWERS, BURNELL, COOPER, CROSS, DEWEY, DEWSBURY, FREEMAN, GAWTHROP, GIDDINGS, GIGNER, GILBERT, GILLIONS, GOLTRIP, GOTHARD, HAWKINS, JEFFERY, LEVITT, MARTIN, MODEN, NEWMAN, NEWELL, TAYLOR, TINGEY, WATERS, WHITEHEAD, YARROW. |
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