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Topic: Lookup request for James Clark and Isabella Lawrance (Read 1066 times)
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roycymru
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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There is also a
Jean Laurence christened 11 Feb 1785 Rathen
Father Alexr Laurence mother Margt Mill (but this could just be a misspelling of Milne)
Roy
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Traceyelizabeth
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Roy
I have a question for you! AFter a false start I am now looking at the Edinburgh area where the Laurances moved to in roughly 1850. The eldest son, Johan, who was born in England in 1841 ish was a Cabinet maker journeyman - however, he disappears after his fathers death in 1863 and I can't find him in either England or Scotland!
Would his name have been listed as 'John' rather than 'Johan' ? Also, a bit of a moan, how come Scottish records are sooooooooooo good and you can look at the certificates on line.... English records you have to guess that you have the right one and then order it!!!
In all my searching i have to say that the Scotland part was by far the easiest - they seem to have really got a hold on this ancestory stuff and even very old certificates are all available to view online - and the people are really helpful... there isn't even an email address for 'Ancestory.co.uk' in England.
any ideas on what i can do next to find this 'Johan Lawrence/Laurance'?
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roycymru
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Tracey
Can you please Supply us with some more background/information. I have done a quick search of the censuses for Johan Laurance and can't find anything at all. So can you please let us known:
How did you find him in the first place, and your references/sources
Where in England was he born?
What his parents, brothers, sisters names were?
How do you know his profession, is he in the 1861 census? If so where?
What references have you got for the Laurances moving to Edingburgh?
These might give clues as to where/how you can do further searches.
P.S. I totally agree the Scottish Census/Marriage/Birth/Death records are so much better than the English/Welsh ones
Roy
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Traceyelizabeth
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Roy
Here goes...
Firstly, it took me ages to decipher his name - it looked like Faban, or Laban and then I realised it was probably Johan through looking at other handwriting on the certificates. Of course, I may be wrong!!! now i'm looking at the first letter, it doesn't look anything like the 'J' for Joseph... it looks more like a swirly 'L'.
anyway...
Joseph Lawrence b. 1815 married Elizabeth Morris b. ?. Found Josephs death cert with correct spouse, profession, age and area (Edinburgh). On this certificate a Johan (Faban/Laban) Lawrence, Son, is the informant.
1851 Census - Johan Lawrence is listed as Son, age 10 and a scholar
1861 Census - Johan Lawrence is listed as Son, age 20 and a Cabinet Maker-Journeyman
1871 Census - No Johan as he has probably moved out by then
As to brothers & sisters:
Johan 1841 ?
Joseph 1849 to 1930 - married Agnes Grieve in 1869. They had 7 children. (This is the family line that leads down to me eventually!).
Matilda 1850 to 1943 - Married Alexander Campbell McLeod and had 6 children, Alexander died around 1871 and she then married William Sutherland
James 1853 to 1893 - Married Ellen/Helen, died a pauper in St Cuthberts, Edinburgh, 2 children died in early infancy, his wife died in 1891.
Elizabeth 1855 to 1885 - Married Thomas Dick - 1 child
Alice 1860 - can't find anything out about her either!
It looks like the family moved to Edinburgh just before Joseph was born... Joseph, Elizabeth and 'Johan' all have ENGLAND as 'where born' on their Census returns. Son Joseph has 'EDINBURGH' as do the rest of the children after. I have no idea why they moved to Edinburgh...
I hope you can help - this family tree stuff is so important to me cos I was adopted as a baby and this is the family I might have had if my lovely Grandfather had been listened to when he said 'why don't we keep her?'. I did eventually find my natural mother and her father was Jock Lawrence - this is the line I am tracing back.
Tracey
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Traceyelizabeth
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi, it is definitely an 'L' as it matches the Lawrence... so it looks like 'Laban'. Will try searching for this but i think i have already done this and not found anything!!
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MonicaLesl
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 This marriage entry looks promising:
1865 LAWRENCE LABAN FARQUHARSON JANE ST GILES EDINBURGH CITY/MIDLOTHIAN 685/04 0084
Regards.
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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MonicaLesl
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Tracey
Looking good  From the 1871 Census, everyone showing as born in Edinburgh except Laban:
Laban Lawrence 30, Foot Officer Slamper (?!), b. England
Jane Lawrence 29
Joseph Lawrence 5
Margt C Lawrence 4
Elizth M Lawrence 2
Address: 4 Milne Square, Edinburgh High Church
And in 1881:
Laban Lawrence 40, Porter General Post Office, b. England
Jane Craig Lawrence 39
Joseph Lawrence 15
Margaret Craig Lawrence 14
Mary Squire Lawrence 9
Alexander F Lawrence 7
Laban Lawrence 5
William M Lawrence 2
Jane Craig Lawrence 7 Mo
Address: Specific address not given on index but showing in Edinburgh St Giles
Unusual name Laban, only two entries coming up for Laban Lawrence in the whole of Scotland. Probably father (b. circa 1840) and (son b. circa 1876):
1 1887 LAWRENCE LABAN M 47 ST GILES EDINBURGH CITY/MIDLOTHIAN 685/04 1038
2 1926 LAWRENCE LABAN M 50 COLINTON EDINBURGH CITY/MIDLOTHIAN 685/14 0152
Regards.
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Traceyelizabeth
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Posts: 14
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Roy
I have been looking for the same info at the same time!! goodness you're quick! I've gone a bit further:
Jane died in May 1885 in childbirth, and then Laban died in 1887 of cancer?. All those children left alone!! it's all a bit sad.
Any ideas what would have happened to the children? 7 of them ranging from about 7 years old to 20.
Have found Laban (jnr) death cert for 1926... he was married to Elizabeth McLeod who happens to be his Auntie Matilda's daughter (was that legal?).
T
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MonicaLesl
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Tracey
I'm Monica not Roy 
Monica 
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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MonicaLesl
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One possibility for the older children in 1891:
Joseph Lawrence 25, Rubber Worker
Margt Lawrence 24, sister, Clerkess (Unemployed)
Mary Lawrence 19, sister, House Keeper
Alexr Lawrence 17, brother, Telegraph Messenger
Euphemia Lawrence 9, sister
Francis Godfrey 27, boarder, vanman b. Edinburgh
Address: 5 Murray St Edinburgh St Cuthberts
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Traceyelizabeth
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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sorry for calling you 'Roy' !!! I think i've been at the computer too long!
Thanks for the info, will check it out.
Tracey
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Traceyelizabeth
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I am doing much better with my searching now... things are falling into place nicely! thanks for all the help.
Can anyone tell me though, is it usual for ages to be a bit 'off'?? Joseph Lawrence, christened 1815 (same parents as on death cert), manages to get married at 'age 19' in 1838 (surely he would have been 24?). all the way through on the Census returns and his death cert his age is more like a birth date of 1818, not 1815... did they randomly chop years off records just to confuse us?! All the other info adds up, i.e. profession, spouse, parents, children etc...
Also, I know that him and his wife, Elizabeth Morris, were both born in England and went to Edinburgh with their eldest son, Laban (christened 1841 in England). trouble is, I can't find an 1841 Census for either England or Scotland for them... is it possible they were travelling up to Scotland at the time? Laban was born in 1840 I think, so he would have been a baby. If they were staying somewhere would they have been listed as 'travellers' or something?
Thanks for any help!
Tracey
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MonicaLesl
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Hi Tracey
Always be open minded on people's ages Exact ages were not important in those times, indeed many people may not have remembered their exact birth day - a sign of the times. Always worthwhile adding a +/- x years when you are carrying out exact searches on the censuses and death at age.
When searching the 1841 census, also bear in mind that ages were supposed to be rounded down to the nearest 5 years for everyone over 15, children should show their actual age. Not always followed by the enumerator, but in most cases this was.
Regards.
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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flst
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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In response to Roy's question -Yes, it is usual to find women's maiden names on Scottish headstones & also on censuses if they're widowed.
flst
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MonicaLesl
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In Scotland, Scottish women never legally 'lost' their maiden names and could/ would use their maiden name on a number of registrations even though married or widowed. The 1841 census in particular often shows married women under their maiden names in their family's household entry.
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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