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Topic: Edith Royle Chadwick : 1891 and 1901 (Read 831 times)
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eg1
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 9
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Vaison,
I just send a post to Suz (see below)
If you want some info about Edith Royle, I think I can help you with that. From my grandmother herself (she died in 1988) and from some research by my uncle a have a reasonable complete picture of the Chadwick family. Unfortunately it stops with Benjamin.
Like I said before I only know that he was born in hotel Bull's head in Burnley.
So if you have some questions, ask me.
Thank you for your quick reaction Suz..
Looking for my great grandfather Benjamin Chadwick on internet I accidentally saw your "discussions" last December with Vaison ?? and Mosiefish ?? on this site. The primary question was the whereabouts of Edith Royle Chadwick who happened to be my grandmother.
I have a lot of information for Vaison?? about Edith Royle and her family (first hand), but I have also some questions about all the information you and Mosiefish found out.
For instance it appears that Benjamin (Towler) Chadwick (b. 1849/50 Burnley, Lancs. ) married for the second time in 1890 with a Edith Hampson (b.1860 Sale Lancs.). This is in line with the info Mo found that his first wife Susanna Lister (b.1949) died in 1890!!
But I know from my grandmother that she had 10 sisters and brothers, the first one Mary was born in 1884 (she died soon afterwards), the second (Gertrude) in 1885, also Lilian and Beatrice all four born before 1990! I'm sure they are the daughters of Edith Hampson and not of his first wife of whom he had only two boys.
So Benjamin had some (unlawful) children whilst married with his first wife or the marriagedate of Benjamin x Edith is not 1890 but earlier??
Can you do me a favor and find out if 1890 is really the correct marriage date?
Furthermore Mo mentioned a 1841 censuslisting of of the fam. Towler (according to her in the transcription the name is wrongly spelled "Fowles"??) Regretfully she didn't put it in her post. Maybe you can find this info to?
I hope you can find anything, thank you
Regards EG
(Please don't mind my English, I'm Dutch so its still somewhat difficult)
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mosiefish
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2800
John Knowles 1896 to 1917
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Hi EG,
Mosiefish is still around  I think this is the one I found but not entirely sure. Will have to look back and check.
1841 census:
HO107/508/4 Folio 37 page 22
Finsley, Habergham Eaves
Thos Towler/Fowles?, 50, Weaver
Hannah, 45
Benjn, 19 or 17, Weaver
Alice, 13,
Robt, 8
/
John Laycock, 11
John Towler/Fowles, 21, Joiner
Jane ", 28
Alice ", 1
All born in County.
Regards,
Mo
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukLancs: Harrison, Entwistle, Devine, Grundy, Ashworth, Freeman, Jackson, Rushton Cornwall: Rich, Binney, Peake Devon: Walters |
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suzard
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 10272
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Hi Mosie - am just going through this again for eg1 - and it looks like Benjamin's marriage to Edith was reg same quarter as the death of Susannah jane - although in different districts
But there is a possibiity susannah jane and Edith were related - I'm looking into that at the moment -so bear with me - it may take a while -and I could be mistaken
Suz
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Thornhill, Cresswell, Sisson, Harriman, Cripps, Eyre, Walter, Marson, Battison, Holmes, Bailey, Hardman, Fairhurst Noon-mainly in Derbys/Notts-but also Northampton, Oxford, Leics, Lancs-England Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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mosiefish
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2800
John Knowles 1896 to 1917
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Hi Suz,
Nice to know you are on the trail too - had to refresh the old memory cells for this one
Eg, you can check the marriage out in 1890 yourself by going to www.lancashirebmd.org.uk
Regards,
Mo
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukLancs: Harrison, Entwistle, Devine, Grundy, Ashworth, Freeman, Jackson, Rushton Cornwall: Rich, Binney, Peake Devon: Walters |
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eg1
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 9
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks Mo,
I think it's the same family; address is the same!!
Thos for Thomas and Hannah are there.
Only the age of both (and their children) is a littlebit funny.
In your output (last December) of Census 1851 Thomas is 62; 10 years earlier (1841) he is 50 (12 years diff.)?? In 1951 Hannah is 53; 10 years before she is 45 (8 years diff.)
It seems the age of this people was not so relevant?
Age John; 21-> 30 , OK
Age Robert 8-> 11 years, only 3 years older in 10 years??
Benjamin (other than "our" Benj.) and Jane have probably left the house?
But in the 1841Census there is no age given for Alice: is this the Alice mentioned in the Census 1851"Alice Grand? 10, Nurse??? or is the Alice, mother of "our" Benjamin. She should be 12 in 1841!
So, nobody said it was simple!!
But I'm gratefull for this info and I keep puzzling. Again thanks
Regards, EG
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mosiefish
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2800
John Knowles 1896 to 1917
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Hi Eg,
On the 1841 census ages above 15 were supposedly rounded down to the nearest 0 or 5 so if Thomas was 62 on the 1851 census he would have been 50 on the 1841 census. The image is really bad on the 1851 census so Hannah could have been 55. Robert was 8 on the 1841 census and 18 on the 1851 (my fault I typed 11). Your Alice was 13 on the 1841 census and there was also another Alice aged 1 who I think was John and Jane Towlers child. She is the Alice aged 10 on the 1851 census.
Hope this makes sense.
Mo
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukLancs: Harrison, Entwistle, Devine, Grundy, Ashworth, Freeman, Jackson, Rushton Cornwall: Rich, Binney, Peake Devon: Walters |
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eg1
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 9
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Suz, your remark that Susannah and Edith could be related is maybe true?
Edith was (according to your info) lodger in the Lister family (Richard Lister, son of Richard Lister, father of Susanna) With a little fantasy it's possible that Benjamin and his first wife Susanna often visited their brother / brother in law Richard Lister. When the relation between Benjamin and Susanna went wrong ?? (I heard some familystories that Susanna became mentally ill and ended up in a special home??), Benjamin fancied Edith and later on married with her?? In that case you could say, he wasn't a gentleman, having children with Edith whilst still married with Susanna?? But its only a guess??
EG
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suzard
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 10272
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What you really need (to prove/disprove) family stories is Susannah's death cert - this would give place and cause of death.
Maybe if she did have a mental illness then Edith came to help out with the children or to be housekeeper - I feel she knew the family -and was possibly trusted by the family .
What you also need is the birth certs of the children you thought were of Edith -before marriage =to see who is named as parents?
I think Susannah jane Lister was the sister of Richard E Lister who married Elizabeth ( Edith Hampsons sister)
and Susannah jane and Richard E were the children of Richard lister and jane
More in a mo - just thought of something I need to check
Suz
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Thornhill, Cresswell, Sisson, Harriman, Cripps, Eyre, Walter, Marson, Battison, Holmes, Bailey, Hardman, Fairhurst Noon-mainly in Derbys/Notts-but also Northampton, Oxford, Leics, Lancs-England Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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eg1
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 9
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks Mo, your info makes sense, so Alice (mother of Benjamin) belongs indeed to this family Towler.
I have only one question left. Maybe you (as pro's) know if the suffix "Towler" with Benjamin "Towler" Chadwick generally spoken means that Benjamin was born (1849) before Alice married Robert (1850)?? and he got this "suffix" of his mothers name??
Familystories also relate to a relation of Alice with some rich guy?? They told me this could explain why he got a very good education??
Maybe this is all nonsense, I only wanted to know.
Regards
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suzard
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 10272
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I'll just get back to the Listers
hope you can follow me???
Although i can find the birth reg of Susannah jane Lister -I cannot find her with her parents
there is a baptism record on IGI -but t is only submitted - so has to be treated with caution - it gives the parents of Susannah jane as Richard Lister/jane
I think this is quite possibly correct
Which means Susannah was the sister of Richard E Lister who married Elizabeth (Edith hampsons sister)
I can't locate any of the Lister family in 1851
It seems 1861 susannah and her sister mary were in a large boarding school -
Casterton Westmorland
Mary lister Pupil 14 Burnley lancs
Susannah lister pupil15 Burnley
RG9 3967 91 21
their parents were still in lancs
1861
9 Coal St lancs
Richard Lister head m 40 Draper & Tailor emmp 14 women 5 men Burnley
Jane wife 40 Clne lancs
Elizabeth daughter 16 Burnley
Richard son 9 Burnley
John son 7 Burnley
jane daughter 1 burnley
RG9 306 5 16 25
1861 is only census I can find Susannah on pre marriage
more in a mo
Suz
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Thornhill, Cresswell, Sisson, Harriman, Cripps, Eyre, Walter, Marson, Battison, Holmes, Bailey, Hardman, Fairhurst Noon-mainly in Derbys/Notts-but also Northampton, Oxford, Leics, Lancs-England Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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suzard
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 10272
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I have just found something which is interesting !!!-well I think it is!!!!
back in a mo
Suz
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Thornhill, Cresswell, Sisson, Harriman, Cripps, Eyre, Walter, Marson, Battison, Holmes, Bailey, Hardman, Fairhurst Noon-mainly in Derbys/Notts-but also Northampton, Oxford, Leics, Lancs-England Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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suzard
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 10272
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the siblings of your grandmother are(i believe)
Mary (died in infancy)
Gertrude A
lilian
beatrice
Edith R (gran)
Muriel
Iris Victoria
Eric Warrener
Vivienne(twin)
mona (twin)
Julian Ellis
possibly the children from your grandmother onwards were legitimate.
all of the children were b Manchester -except gertrude A who was b Blackpool
possibly gertrude a was in fact Alice gertrude and was registered in mother's maiden name
Ill have a think about this and be back tomorrow
Suz
In 1891 they were living t 25 fairlawn St
1901 122 cecil st
1911 22 Fairlawn St
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Thornhill, Cresswell, Sisson, Harriman, Cripps, Eyre, Walter, Marson, Battison, Holmes, Bailey, Hardman, Fairhurst Noon-mainly in Derbys/Notts-but also Northampton, Oxford, Leics, Lancs-England Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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mosiefish
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2800
John Knowles 1896 to 1917
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Hi,
Really must go to bed but found Richard Lister in my directories on St. James Street, Burnley under Tailors.
1851 census has this:
71 St. James Row, Burnley
Jane Lister, Head, Mar, 30, Tailor and Clothes Dealer, born Colne
Elizabeth A, 6, Habergham Eaves
SUSANNA, 4, Burnley
John R Greenwood, 18, Tailors Shopman, Colne
Night All,
Mo
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukLancs: Harrison, Entwistle, Devine, Grundy, Ashworth, Freeman, Jackson, Rushton Cornwall: Rich, Binney, Peake Devon: Walters |
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suzard
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 10272
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Well done, mo - so our assumptions were correct !
have a good sleep - Im having a little rest from this topic but will be back to it later
Night
Suz
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Thornhill, Cresswell, Sisson, Harriman, Cripps, Eyre, Walter, Marson, Battison, Holmes, Bailey, Hardman, Fairhurst Noon-mainly in Derbys/Notts-but also Northampton, Oxford, Leics, Lancs-England Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Pages: 1 2 [3] 4
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