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Author
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Topic: Brick wall on marriage at Headless Cross (Read 1238 times)
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Treelover
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 833
Me
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Hi,
After months of thinking I had found the correct parents of Mary Ann Hunt, the whole lot came crashing down two days ago.
Can any one help look for the following please.
I have Thomas Frederick Jones (b 1875) son of Thomas Jones marrying Mary Ann Hunt (born 1877/8).
They marry on May 30th 1898 at the Parish Church in the Rectory of Headless Cross, Warwickshire. (Although according to sites I have looked at Headless Cross is in Worcestershire)??
I have sorted out Thomas Frederick Jones - thats fine. (He was born West Bromwich)
Mary Ann's father is shown as William HUNT Labourer. The witnesses are Ernest & Amy Eliza Griffin who I think are just family friends, they marry the year before registered Ipsley, Alcester, Worcs. (Can't find them on 1901 either)
My grandfather Harold Jones was born 1906 Alcester, Feckenham, Worcs.
I got in touch with Worcester records office some time ago, they said Thomas & Mary Ann's first son, William Henry HUNT was baptised at Headless Cross on 6th December 1903.
I cannot find a Mary ANn Hunt with a father William that will fit in. I also cannot find Thomas Frederick JONES with his wife Mary Ann on the 1901 census. As I'm still not sure where Mary Ann was born I cannot be sure of ordering the correct certficate, especially when Warwickshire/Worcestershire seem to keep moving the boundary.
Can anyone help please.
Thanks
Joan
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Atkinson - Congleton, Ches
Broomhead - Lancs
Clegg - Rochdale, Lancs
Dodd - Manchester, Lancs
Jones - Lancs, Shropshire, Staffs
Williams - Salford, Lancs & Wales
Kennerley - Congleton, Ches
Lees - Rutland
Redfern - Lancs & Derbyshire
Round - Staffs
Rowley - Congleton, Ches
Sankey - Burtonwood, Lancs
Shuffle(el)bottom - Lincs & Lancs
Watson - Salford, Lancs & Yorks
Walker - Manchester, Lancs
Wright - Manchester
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Valda
RootsChat Moderator
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Posts: 7445
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Since the Boer War cuts across the 1901 census it is possible Thomas Frederick Jones had volunteered which might account for why the baptism of the first known child was so much later after the marriage.
What was Thomas' occupation? (there is a Thomas Jones born West Bromwich in Wales on the 1901 census but he was aged 28, with a wife Marie of the same age born Birmingham).
The witnesses to the marriage were living in Headless Cross on the 1901 census.
RG13 2942 folio 28
9 Highfield Road Headless Cross Upper Ipsley
Ernest Griffin 29 Head Married Needle stamper Headless Cross Worcestershire
Amy E Griffin 28 Wife Married Fish hook bender Bromsgrove Worcestershire
Albert J Griffin 8 months Headless Cross Worcestershire
Regards
Valda
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grlune
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 614
John Gibbons (1920-2008) - My grandad.
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hi
interestingly, on the 1881 census, there is a Mary Hunt, aged 3 with father William Henry Hunt and mother Elizabeth A Hunt and with other siblings at Worcester.
see census ref: RG11/2917 folio 6 page 5.
regards
Graham
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Lune/Loon/Loone - WARKS & LANCS Gibbons - WARKS & LON,Hackney Wick Edwin/Moisey - WORCS Vincent/Flavell/Day/Harris/Cliff/Crisp - WARKS Leach/Wardle/Heywood/Stanley - Toronto, CA Powell/Clarke - Harborne(Warks) **Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk** |
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Valda
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William Hy Hunt of Worcester was a glove cutter on the 1881 census and a glover on the 1891 census and a glover's cutter in 1901.
Regards
Valda
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Treelover
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 833
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Hi Valda, Graham & CaroleW
Their first son was baptised William Henry JONES. (Sorry my mistake). There was an older daughter Ellen, at the time I did not ask them about her because I only found out she was older some months after my query.
On the marriage certificate, Mary Ann's father is a labourer.
I have already found Thomas Frederick Jones and his parents. Thomas Frederick Jones was a hairdresser. Approx 1910 Thomas Frederick & Mary Ann moved to Manchester, he opened a barber's shop in Manchester. My auntie remembers visiting them at the shop when she was little.
Graham, I discounted that 1881 census, as I would have expected if her father had a middle name it would have been on her marriage certificate???
I have found a Mary Ann Hunt on the 1881 census with a father William Hunt (labourer) & mother Elizabeth born in Bristol, Gloucs, with siblings James, Elizabeth and Alfred. But I cannot find this family on 1891 and cannot see how I can check it is the right Mary Ann. Also how would a 21 year old girl from Bristol meet a man from West Bromwich and then marry him in Headless Cross. It all seems a little too far fetched???
It doesn't help when none of their children take family names, none of Thomas Fredericks families names are chosen, not one of his sons was a Thomas or Frederick. They were obviously "modern thinking people" - unfortunately for me 
Any ideas what I should do now 
Joan
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Atkinson - Congleton, Ches
Broomhead - Lancs
Clegg - Rochdale, Lancs
Dodd - Manchester, Lancs
Jones - Lancs, Shropshire, Staffs
Williams - Salford, Lancs & Wales
Kennerley - Congleton, Ches
Lees - Rutland
Redfern - Lancs & Derbyshire
Round - Staffs
Rowley - Congleton, Ches
Sankey - Burtonwood, Lancs
Shuffle(el)bottom - Lincs & Lancs
Watson - Salford, Lancs & Yorks
Walker - Manchester, Lancs
Wright - Manchester
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Valda
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You can search one of the 1901 census indexes by occupation
http://www.1901censusonline.com/search.asp?wci=ei_search_with_locale
Nothing for a Thomas or Frederick Jones that looks likely though.
I can't see a possible for a young Ellen Jones either born Worcestershire, Warwickshire or Staffordshire - she was perhaps born after the 1901 census?
If it really isn't possible to be sure of Mary's birthplace in the end it isn't too long before some of the 1911 census will be made public - beginning in 2009
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/1911census/
Regards
Valda
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Treelover
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 833
Me
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Hi Valda,
Many thanks for your help. Looks like I'll have to wait. 
Joan
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Logged
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Atkinson - Congleton, Ches
Broomhead - Lancs
Clegg - Rochdale, Lancs
Dodd - Manchester, Lancs
Jones - Lancs, Shropshire, Staffs
Williams - Salford, Lancs & Wales
Kennerley - Congleton, Ches
Lees - Rutland
Redfern - Lancs & Derbyshire
Round - Staffs
Rowley - Congleton, Ches
Sankey - Burtonwood, Lancs
Shuffle(el)bottom - Lincs & Lancs
Watson - Salford, Lancs & Yorks
Walker - Manchester, Lancs
Wright - Manchester
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Treelover
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 833
Me
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Morning everyone,
I have had a thought. I know exactly when Mary Ann died.
Does anyone know if death certificates from 1976 show a birth date on them?
Joan
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Logged
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Atkinson - Congleton, Ches
Broomhead - Lancs
Clegg - Rochdale, Lancs
Dodd - Manchester, Lancs
Jones - Lancs, Shropshire, Staffs
Williams - Salford, Lancs & Wales
Kennerley - Congleton, Ches
Lees - Rutland
Redfern - Lancs & Derbyshire
Round - Staffs
Rowley - Congleton, Ches
Sankey - Burtonwood, Lancs
Shuffle(el)bottom - Lincs & Lancs
Watson - Salford, Lancs & Yorks
Walker - Manchester, Lancs
Wright - Manchester
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Galium
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 638
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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The GRO index will show the birth date if you are looking in 1976 or later (not sure when they started including it).
Do you need a look up?
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Treelover
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 833
Me
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Hi Gallium,
Yes please 
My mother kept the newspaper cutting of her death (morbid family).
Mary Ann Jones died 16 August 1976 in Moston, Manchester, Lancashire. She was 99.
Joan
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Logged
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Atkinson - Congleton, Ches
Broomhead - Lancs
Clegg - Rochdale, Lancs
Dodd - Manchester, Lancs
Jones - Lancs, Shropshire, Staffs
Williams - Salford, Lancs & Wales
Kennerley - Congleton, Ches
Lees - Rutland
Redfern - Lancs & Derbyshire
Round - Staffs
Rowley - Congleton, Ches
Sankey - Burtonwood, Lancs
Shuffle(el)bottom - Lincs & Lancs
Watson - Salford, Lancs & Yorks
Walker - Manchester, Lancs
Wright - Manchester
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avm228
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Posts: 3515
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Death Sep 1976
Mary Annie Jones b 1 May 1877 d Manchester 38 1531
(there's no Mary Ann who fits your information)
Anna
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Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)
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Treelover
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 833
Me
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Hi Anna,
Thank you so much. Not sure why she is registered is mary Annie instead of Ann. Its Ann no marriage cert and Ann on the newspaper cutting. But I think we can say its definately her. There can't be too many 99 years old ladies dying at exactly the right time in the right place with the right surname.
How do I go about ordering the birth cert? Before I have always had references for them. can I just order one that says I want Mary Ann Hunt born 1st May 1877 but I don't know where?
Joan
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Logged
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Atkinson - Congleton, Ches
Broomhead - Lancs
Clegg - Rochdale, Lancs
Dodd - Manchester, Lancs
Jones - Lancs, Shropshire, Staffs
Williams - Salford, Lancs & Wales
Kennerley - Congleton, Ches
Lees - Rutland
Redfern - Lancs & Derbyshire
Round - Staffs
Rowley - Congleton, Ches
Sankey - Burtonwood, Lancs
Shuffle(el)bottom - Lincs & Lancs
Watson - Salford, Lancs & Yorks
Walker - Manchester, Lancs
Wright - Manchester
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Treelover
RootsChat Veteran
Online
Posts: 833
Me
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Woo hoo
There are only three Mary Ann Hunts registered in that quarter, East Retford, Barrow and DUDLEY.
Very very tempted to order the Dudley one, what does everyone think??
Joan
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Logged
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Atkinson - Congleton, Ches
Broomhead - Lancs
Clegg - Rochdale, Lancs
Dodd - Manchester, Lancs
Jones - Lancs, Shropshire, Staffs
Williams - Salford, Lancs & Wales
Kennerley - Congleton, Ches
Lees - Rutland
Redfern - Lancs & Derbyshire
Round - Staffs
Rowley - Congleton, Ches
Sankey - Burtonwood, Lancs
Shuffle(el)bottom - Lincs & Lancs
Watson - Salford, Lancs & Yorks
Walker - Manchester, Lancs
Wright - Manchester
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avm228
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 3515
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Sounds very promising. Hope it's your Mary Ann
Anna
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Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)
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