Brick wall on marriage at Headless Cross Family History Local History

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Brick wall on marriage at Headless Cross

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Topic: Brick wall on marriage at Headless Cross (Read 1228 times)

avm228
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Re: Brick wall on marriage at Headless Cross
« Reply #15 on: Monday 17 December 07 11:12 GMT (UK) »

You know, the "Annie" thing in the death record has given me an idea - that perhaps she was known, or sometimes known, as Annie.

I can't help noticing in 1891 a 13-yr old Annie Hunt b "Henley, Warwickshire" in service in Studley - which of course is very close to Headless Cross.
RG12/2480 folio 34 p12.

And in 1881 in Henley-in-Arden (Wootton Wawen) a 3 yr old Annie Hunt who is daughter of William Hunt, woodsman b Tanworth and his wife Mary, b Manchester: RG11/3104 folio 74 p7.

I haven't followed this Annie after that but she might be worth a look at least.

Anna


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Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
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Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
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Treelover
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Re: Brick wall on marriage at Headless Cross
« Reply #16 on: Monday 17 December 07 11:30 GMT (UK) »

Anna,

It could be coincidence, Mary Ann and her husband moved, as I said earlier, to Manchester in mid 1900s.

I have just noticed that the Annie on the 1881 census, her mother is from Manchester. That could give them a reason for the move?

Can I just order a birth certificate with her birthday, name and no reference or district do you know?

Joan


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Atkinson - Congleton, Ches
Broomhead - Lancs
Clegg - Rochdale, Lancs
Dodd - Manchester, Lancs
Jones - Lancs, Shropshire, Staffs
Williams - Salford, Lancs & Wales
Kennerley - Congleton, Ches
Lees - Rutland
Redfern - Lancs & Derbyshire
Round - Staffs
Rowley - Congleton, Ches
Sankey - Burtonwood, Lancs
Shuffle(el)bottom - Lincs & Lancs
Watson - Salford, Lancs & Yorks
Walker - Manchester, Lancs
Wright - Manchester

avm228
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Re: Brick wall on marriage at Headless Cross
« Reply #17 on: Monday 17 December 07 11:34 GMT (UK) »

Quote from: Treelover on Monday 17 December 07 11:30 GMT (UK)

Can I just order a birth certificate with her birthday, name and no reference or district do you know?

I'm not sure, to be honest. It might be worth an e-mail to ask them:

certificate.services@ons.gsi.gov.uk

Anna


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Treelover
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Re: Brick wall on marriage at Headless Cross
« Reply #18 on: Monday 17 December 07 14:05 GMT (UK) »

Hi.

I have emailed to GRO and asked if I can order a birth certificate on birth day alone.

Will let you know the outcome Wink

Fingers crossed

Joan


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Valda
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Re: Brick wall on marriage at Headless Cross
« Reply #19 on: Monday 17 December 07 23:33 GMT (UK) »

William Hunt the woodman of the 1881 census was an ag lab in Tanworth on the 1891, wife Mary gives her birthplace as Wootton Wawen on this census. The family were in Upper Ipsley on the 1901 census. William was a woodcutter and Mary on this census was born Preston Warwickshire.

'Annie Hunt's birthplace was given as Bearley Warwickshirhe on the 1881 census and if it is the same person on the 1891 census Henley. Both should register in Stratford upon Avon registration district.

This looks a possibility for the parents' marriage

Marriages Dec 1876
Hunt William Stratford 6d 1067
James Mary Stratford 6d 1067

WILLIAM HUNT
MARY JAMES
Marriage: 01 OCT 1876 Wootton Wawen, Warwick
Husband Age at Marriage: 21
Wife Age at Marriage: 20

On the 1871 census there is a Mary James of the right age born Manchester in Wootton Wawen.

On FreeBMD I can't really see a suitable candidate with a birth registered in Warwickshire though, particularly in either Stratford or Solihull (which would covered Tanworth) registrations districts with a first or second name of Ann(ie).

The Dudley birth registration for Mary Ann seems to also have a likely death registration in the same quarter

Deaths Jun 1877
HUNT Mary Ann 0 Dudley 6c 32

Regards

Valda


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Treelover
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Re: Brick wall on marriage at Headless Cross
« Reply #20 on: Monday 17 December 07 23:54 GMT (UK) »

Hi Valda,

All very interesting. Don't know what to do about that birth/death though sort of puts a spanner in the works Undecided

There do seem to be a lot of coincidences. Haven't checked your message against census records yet. But you say in 1901 they are in Upper Ipsley, which is where Mary Ann's witnesses come from. Mary Ann and her husband move to Manchester (where her mother comes from)

I presume a woodcutter is not a skilled job, otherwise why would Mary Ann have put labourer as her father's profession on her marriage cert?

Have been a little silly Roll Eyes

Emailed GRO - auto response was just a little better than useless. You have to re-email them if their FAQs don't cover your question and it could take ages for them to reply.

Have ordered a birth cert based on her birth day and the fact her father is called William (cheated and put Unknown in district, 00 in volume and 00 in page).

Asked nicely about reference checking and mentioned there were only 3 births that it could be. Will wait and see what happens next.

Small refund and telling off possible Roll Eyes

Joan


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Treelover
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Re: Brick wall on marriage at Headless Cross
« Reply #21 on: Tuesday 18 December 07 10:54 GMT (UK) »

Hello again,

Isn’t it odd when something you have known all your life you never query? Below is about my grandmother, not my great grandmother.

My grandmother was christened Hannah, on every census she is shown as ANNIE. She did not like the name. When she married its shows ANNIE, on my dad’s and his brothers birth certs it is shown as ANNIE and her death certificate says ANNIE Walker, also known as Hannah. My 2nd cousins never knew she was actually a Hannah.

Her death record on GRO only shows the name ANNIE not Hannah. Therefore if I didn’t know she was born Hannah I would never have found her birth.

Do you think a similar thing can have happened with Mary Ann. Could she have just added the Mary, and that’s the reason why her death record shows her as Mary Annie??

What does everyone think?? Sorry its long winded.

Joan


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avm228
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Re: Brick wall on marriage at Headless Cross
« Reply #22 on: Tuesday 18 December 07 21:34 GMT (UK) »

She could just have added the Mary at some point. I think it more likely (if we have the right girl) that she was "officially" Mary Ann, as per her marriage certificate etc., but known as Annie within the family to avoid confusion with mother Mary. I have seen this a great deal in my tree - children named similarly to their parents, but known within the family by a middle name or nickname to distinguish them from their namesake.

Still rather mystified that there is no obvious birth registration for Annie! Will keep thinking.

Anna


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Treelover
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Re: Brick wall on marriage at Headless Cross
« Reply #23 on: Tuesday 18 December 07 22:10 GMT (UK) »

Hi Anna,

Just spent another £7. Realised death certificates give date and PLACE of birth. So I have ordered her death certificate to see where she was born - should give us some clue. Fingers crossed.

With the Xmas period it will be nearly new year before I get it Cry

the suspense is killing me already Grin

Will keep thread open just in case I STILL can't find her then

Joan


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Valda
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Re: Brick wall on marriage at Headless Cross
« Reply #24 on: Tuesday 18 December 07 22:46 GMT (UK) »

A 4th possibility for the birth registration

Births Jun 1877
HUNT Mary Hannah Manchester 8d 312

and the family on the 1901 census

1901 census RG13 3768 folio 116
46 Vernon Street Manchester
Thos F Jones 27 Head Married Hairdresser Tipton Staffordshire
Annie Jones 23 Wife Married Bealey Warwickshire
Nellie Jones 2 Daughter Aston Warwickshire
James A Wright 30 Uncle Married Bakers Van Man Manchester Lancashire
Jane Wright 31 Aunt Married Bealey Warwickshire
Richd Wright 7 Manchester Lancashire
Emily Wright 6 Manchester Lancashire
Edith Wright 2 Manchester Lancashire
Lily Wright 3 months Manchester Lancashire

Regards

Valda


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Treelover
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Re: Brick wall on marriage at Headless Cross
« Reply #25 on: Tuesday 18 December 07 22:52 GMT (UK) »

Oh Valda,

I can't beleive you have found them on the 1901 census Cry

Would you beleive I'm sat here laughing and crying. Its a major breakthrough. Oh I am so much in your debt.

Thank you ever so much. Its definately them. They must have gone to Manchester and then gone back again for some of the other births Grin

Wow, fantastic,

Thank you so so much, I could kiss you Kiss

well maybe a big hug Embarrassed

Joan


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Treelover
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Re: Brick wall on marriage at Headless Cross
« Reply #26 on: Tuesday 18 December 07 23:05 GMT (UK) »

VALDA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OMG - just realised its Annie Hunt from Bearley !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YES

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Joan Grin


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Valda
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Re: Brick wall on marriage at Headless Cross
« Reply #27 on: Wednesday 19 December 07 00:19 GMT (UK) »

Possible birth registration for 'Nellie'

Births Mar 1898
JONES Ellen Aston 6d 426

1871 census RG10 3209 folio 58
Turnpike Wootten Wawen
William Sears 54 Head Married Ag lab Claverdon Warwickshire
Elizabeth Sears 52 Wife Married Claverdon Warwickshire
Mary James 15 Niece Manchester Lancashire

WILLIAM SEARS
ELIZABETH JAMES
Marriage: 13 OCT 1841 Claverdon, Warwick

ELIZTH. JAMES
Christening: 05 MAY 1823 Claverdon, Warwick
WILLM. JAMES
Mother: ELIZTH.

Elizabeth had other siblings but her sister Hannah is the one you will be most interested in as there is a possible baptism in Claverdon of a daughter of hers called Mary who may be the Mary of the 1871 census staying with her aunt Elizabeth.

HANNAH JAMES
Christening: 30 MAY 1829 Claverdon, Warwick
Father: WILLM. JAMES
Mother: ELIZTH.

MARY ELIZABETH JAMES
Christening: 22 JUN 1856 Claverdon, Warwick
Mother: HANNAH JAMES

Claverdon registers in Stratford upon Avon registration district but this looks as if it is a possible birth registration for Mary Elizabeth.

Birth registration
March quarter 1856
Mary Elizabeth James
Manchester
volume 8d page 311

On marriage people don't always use their second name.

1861 census RG9 2241 folio 26
Chadshunt Warwickshire
Hannah James 30 Unmarried Servant Dairymaid Claverdon, Warwickshire

I can't see Mary.

Regards

Valda


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Treelover
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Re: Brick wall on marriage at Headless Cross
« Reply #28 on: Wednesday 19 December 07 10:24 GMT (UK) »

Hi Valda,

Thanks for the info.

I want to be 100% sure this time. So I'm going to order birth cert for one of "Mary" Annie's siblings to make sure her mother is Mary James Wink

The Wright family they are living with on the 1901. They are not Aunt & Uncle. James A Wright marries MARY Jane Hunt.

Mary Jane's father is Richard Hunt from Tamworth (same place as William Hunt), therefore I think they are brothers and Jane and Annie are cousins.

On an early census Richard has his father John living with him. So if I get William Hunt & Mary's marriage certificate and it says John is his father, then it will confirm it.

Joan Wink


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Puffcat
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Re: Brick wall on marriage at Headless Cross
« Reply #29 on: Wednesday 19 December 07 12:30 GMT (UK) »

Have watched this unravel with interest. Valda you are a star!


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