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Topic: Watkins: William (father) or Sarah (dtr) (Read 451 times)
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jk22
RootsChat Member
 Offline
Posts: 163
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Hello from Brisbane, Australia
Am looking for my great great grandmother [as per 1851 & 61 England censuses]
Was her father married to | Mary Davies in 1816 in Llandetti |
on May 22?
Was her family home at | Brynjack, Llandetty, Brecknockshire |
as per 1841 Brecknockshire census?
My known details on Sarah Watkins (hoping she is the same as above) is that she married an Essex man, Robert Green, a widower, in London, on February 19, 1844, at St Brides Church. They moved to Weeley, Essex and had 4 children, the youngest, Jane, born on October 11, 1955, is my greatgrandmother.
I don't as yet know when Sarah Green nee Watkins died; nor her father.
Any connections out there!? 
Warm Regards
Julie Kemp
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Logged
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ENGLAND: Ball, Beer, Bell, Green, Jacklin, Kemp, Miles, Mowat
WALES: Watkins
IRELAND: Finn, Fitzpatrick, McGrath, Walsh,
SCOTLAND: Chalmers, Cooper, Ferguson, Galloway, Patterson
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davidjkrichards
RootsChat Extra
Offline
Posts: 28
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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According to Breconshire, Wales marriages 1813 -1837 database from Ancestry.co.uk in comments it just says Bride - Merthyr Tydfyl. This would seem to imply that she came from there and there was a lot of movement between the two areas as happened with my family, also Watkins but no link between us.
Hope this is of some help,
Dave
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Richards, Hewlett, Kear, Elsmore, Brown, Adams, Griffiths, Partridge - Gloucestershire
Richards, Morgan, Jones, Phillips, Duggins, Williams, Watkins, Palmer - Glamorgan
Watkins, Lewis , Havard, Bowcott - Breconshire
Palmer,Palmour, Lewis, Phillips, Dawkins - Pembroke
East, Radford - Devon
Scanlon, Tynan, Farrell, McManus, Burn - Co Longford, Ireland
Perry, Pugh, Glaze, Roberts, Reynolds, Lister, Jones, Thomas, Pearce - Shropshire
Edwards, Speake - Herefordshire
Swan, Taft, Pearce- Staffs
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davidjkrichards
RootsChat Extra
Offline
Posts: 28
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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Sorry Julie
got myself a bit confused. It is Mary Davies that comes from Merthyr. They did get married in Llanddeti and William is described as a Gentleman.
Sorry I can't be of more help
Dave
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Richards, Hewlett, Kear, Elsmore, Brown, Adams, Griffiths, Partridge - Gloucestershire
Richards, Morgan, Jones, Phillips, Duggins, Williams, Watkins, Palmer - Glamorgan
Watkins, Lewis , Havard, Bowcott - Breconshire
Palmer,Palmour, Lewis, Phillips, Dawkins - Pembroke
East, Radford - Devon
Scanlon, Tynan, Farrell, McManus, Burn - Co Longford, Ireland
Perry, Pugh, Glaze, Roberts, Reynolds, Lister, Jones, Thomas, Pearce - Shropshire
Edwards, Speake - Herefordshire
Swan, Taft, Pearce- Staffs
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osprey
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 2523
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Do you have the marriage certificate? GRO ref march qtr 1844 West London vol 2 pg 221 - Robert Green and Sarah Watkins on the same page?
The cerficate should give the names and occupations of both the fathers which helps to trace them back.
On the 1851 census, Sarah's age is given as 37 and her place of birth as Radnorshire, Brecknock so she seems unsure of which county.
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Cornwall: Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Kellett, Tebb
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davidjkrichards
RootsChat Extra
Offline
Posts: 28
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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No sorry, I don't have the certificates or any other information. I will keep my eyes open for you.
Dave
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Logged
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Richards, Hewlett, Kear, Elsmore, Brown, Adams, Griffiths, Partridge - Gloucestershire
Richards, Morgan, Jones, Phillips, Duggins, Williams, Watkins, Palmer - Glamorgan
Watkins, Lewis , Havard, Bowcott - Breconshire
Palmer,Palmour, Lewis, Phillips, Dawkins - Pembroke
East, Radford - Devon
Scanlon, Tynan, Farrell, McManus, Burn - Co Longford, Ireland
Perry, Pugh, Glaze, Roberts, Reynolds, Lister, Jones, Thomas, Pearce - Shropshire
Edwards, Speake - Herefordshire
Swan, Taft, Pearce- Staffs
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osprey
RootsChat Aristocrat
Offline
Posts: 2523
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Dave,
my question about the marriage certificate was for Julie - didn't expect you to have the cert. There's some possibles for Sarah in Middlesex in 1841, so having father's name and occupation is a must. I have my doubts about Sarah being William's daughter. It seems unlikely that the daughter of someone described as 'gentleman' would marry an ag lab.
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Logged
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Cornwall: Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Kellett, Tebb
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jk22
RootsChat Member
Offline
Posts: 163
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Hello Dave and Osprey
I do have a GRO marriage cert for a and a which is dated 19th Feb, 1844, St Brides church London.
It states that RG's father was also a Robert Green [a "Miller"] and Sarah's was a William Watkins ["Farmer"].
Superficially this fits with what i have on Sarah. The cert however also states that Robert jr was a "widower". He was considerably older than Sarah [if it's my family's couple] then RG was 20 years older than Sarah and may have had children from his first marriage, presumably in Essex.
So what i have at present is that
: a | widower, b c 1801 in Ardleigh, Essex |
marries[u][/u] a , who i presume comes from Brecknockshire in Wales (Brecon/Bracknick) and is aged about 23 when she marries him in 1844 in London.
My known Robert and Sarah then go to Weeley in Essex, have 4 children together [John, Octavious, Sarah Ann (later just Ann) and finally , my great grandmother in 1855. Robert seems to have died in between Sarah's conception and the 1861 census.
With regard to Robert's death, i have a birth cert fpr 1858: but i'm not convinced yet that it is actually his. The BMD index entry fitted with my timing but the information given by it doesn't seem right: this RG dies in Thorp, Tendring, Essex of "spinal disease" but no known relatives are present; RG dies in "Union House, Tendring" - is this a hospital? I am expecting RG to have died at home in St Osyth or at least have Sarah present. The age entry on this certificate is rather ambiguous but it strikes me as being "70" which is about 12 years older than i presume RG to have been if in fact he had been born in 1801.
Kind regs
Julie
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ENGLAND: Ball, Beer, Bell, Green, Jacklin, Kemp, Miles, Mowat
WALES: Watkins
IRELAND: Finn, Fitzpatrick, McGrath, Walsh,
SCOTLAND: Chalmers, Cooper, Ferguson, Galloway, Patterson
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davidjkrichards
RootsChat Extra
Offline
Posts: 28
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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Hi Julie,
Who are the witnesses on the marriage certificate? Do they give a clue as to other family members? You are probably aware of a William Watkins with a daughter. Sarah. in the 1841 census living in Becontree, West Ham, Essex, but he is a coachman.
Happy new Year
Dave
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Richards, Hewlett, Kear, Elsmore, Brown, Adams, Griffiths, Partridge - Gloucestershire
Richards, Morgan, Jones, Phillips, Duggins, Williams, Watkins, Palmer - Glamorgan
Watkins, Lewis , Havard, Bowcott - Breconshire
Palmer,Palmour, Lewis, Phillips, Dawkins - Pembroke
East, Radford - Devon
Scanlon, Tynan, Farrell, McManus, Burn - Co Longford, Ireland
Perry, Pugh, Glaze, Roberts, Reynolds, Lister, Jones, Thomas, Pearce - Shropshire
Edwards, Speake - Herefordshire
Swan, Taft, Pearce- Staffs
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jk22
RootsChat Member
Offline
Posts: 163
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Hello Dave
Thanks.
Unfortunately the witnesses on this Sarah and Robert marriage cert don't give a clue that i can see! They are
Alexander McAdam and Catharine McAdam. Robert and Sarah only give their mark and not a signature, so i don't know if they are illiterate or not. I've read that even highly literate people did on occasion not sign but marked documents only. Banns had been given. It was held in the C of E and the "Curate"'s signature looks like a H H I Jones.
I guess i could try St Brides, to see if they have something?
Regards,
Julie
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Logged
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ENGLAND: Ball, Beer, Bell, Green, Jacklin, Kemp, Miles, Mowat
WALES: Watkins
IRELAND: Finn, Fitzpatrick, McGrath, Walsh,
SCOTLAND: Chalmers, Cooper, Ferguson, Galloway, Patterson
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osprey
RootsChat Aristocrat
Offline
Posts: 2523
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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What about the address at time of marriage for both of them? Any clue there?
The union workhouse at Tendring would have provided hospital care for the poor, and any events there would have been registered by one of the officials, not a family member. Details like age can be astray too, because the official wouldn't know. You could try Essex Record Office to see what records exist
www.workhouses.org.uk/index.html?Tendring/Tendring.shtml
Have you considered that Sarah may have remarried? I can see a possible
Sarah Green sept qtr 1867 Tendring vol 4a pg 337 with William Stephen Gipson the only other person on the page.
But, I can't spot the couple in a later census.
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Logged
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Cornwall: Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Kellett, Tebb
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jk22
RootsChat Member
Offline
Posts: 163
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Hello Osprey
Thanks for that.
I will get the Sarah 2nd marriage cert. to see if it is my Jane's mother.
Thanks for the Tendring Union Workhouse website. All so fascinating, scary and acute.
Kind regards,
Julie
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Logged
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ENGLAND: Ball, Beer, Bell, Green, Jacklin, Kemp, Miles, Mowat
WALES: Watkins
IRELAND: Finn, Fitzpatrick, McGrath, Walsh,
SCOTLAND: Chalmers, Cooper, Ferguson, Galloway, Patterson
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