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Topic: Using Wills (Read 773 times)
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Boongie Pam
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Posts: 2497
Pa is Scottish, Ma is Welsh, Nose is Roamin'
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Using Wills
« on: Sunday 02 January 05 20:40 UTC (UK) » |
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Thought I'd ask what luck or use have you had from tracking down probate and wills?
I've got very limited experience I have 5 wills from 1858 to 1895 Cumberland that I got from Carlisle Record Office and they are fantastic.
One in particular mentions 47 relatives. William Lowther had no children of his owns so he bequeaths something to each of his many nieces and nephews. This is the most astounding passage...
...To the children of the late John Robinson the son of my sister in law Jane Robinson the framed memorial cards of their father's uncle William Armstrong, his aunt Sarah and his grandfather and grandmother...
Are all wills like this? How much detail do they go to (in this one I know what happened to his ornament representing 2 cows and a bull!)
Is it just the look of the draw?
Cheers,
Pam
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All census look up transcriptions are Crown Copyright
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Dumfrieshire: Fallen, Fallon, Carruthers, Scott, Farish, Aitchison, Green, Ryecroft, Thomson, Stewart
Midlothian: Linn/d, Aitken, Martin
North Wales: Robins(on), Hughes, Parry, Jones
Cumberland: Lowther, Young, Steward, Miller
Somerset: Palmer, Cork, Greedy, Clothier
Currently offline due to work reasons- sorry for the silence!
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casalguidi
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Oh, Suttontrust, surely you must have had some relative who left a will at sometime?
Have you really got no-one? Not even uncles/aunts/grandparents of ancestors?
Have you really, really looked and far enough back? It's surprising how circumstances in families can change from one extreme to the other.
We have relatives in poverty during the 1800s but find they descend from the more prosperous in the early 1700s.
Casalguidi hoping you find a will
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nutkin
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My reason for digging! A baby nutkin!
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I have found a few wills and overall have not found too much detail. It is nice to see who they left items to and the like. But never too much detail. I just like to have them to round out my research and confirm my research.
The best one was short but very telling. Thomas Portas died in 1812 in Mablethorpe. He left most to his dearest wife Bridget. They had 2 children 7 years prior to marriage and both were named in the will with no other children. I love how he repeatedly called his wife Bridget "my dear wife Bridget" throughout the will. I theorize that they were unable to marry for 7 years after the first child was born and the second child and were so in love that the family finally approved of the marriage after he worked his way to a small fortune. He died rather well off.
One other will details all the property that was owned and even a long list of people who owed him money. I am able to check maps and see the extent of his property. Nothing personal in the will but gives you an idea of the every day dealing of his life.
So I would say hit or miss for me as the other ones i have gotten only says I leave all money linens and house to my wife until her death. No mention of any one else. Boring.
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Shields & Milner- Patrington & Bilton, Yorkshire Nixon & Bowers - Appleby, Broughton & Messingham, Lincolnshire Hancock &Tyson- Tetford, Skendleby & Spilsby, Lincolnshire Cochrane- Darvel, Loudon, Ayrshire Yuill, Hardie- Paisley, Renfrewshire Kennedy, Gardener & Clelland- Glasgow, Lanarkshire & Paisley, Renfrewshire Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Little Nell
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Hi all,
I have some fantastic wills from nearly four centuries ago to much nearer than that. My favourite is from a maiden lady who died when she was about 70 in 1772. Apart from listing some items of jewellery, damask gowns etc as bequests (and telling her neice whom not to marry otherwise she won't get her £300 inheritance), she said:
"I would have a thick oak coffin covered with Black cloth and lined within side. I desire to kept Seven days above ground after I am Dead if I can without being offensive. I would have a very good Shroud to be buried in."
Not much you can say to that.
But I would recommend to everyone to look for wills just in case. I found one from a gt gt gt grandfather (maybe more than that, but never mind) who carefully left his 1 1/2 acre award (less than a football pitch) from the Enclosure Act to his youngest son by his second wife.
Nell
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casalguidi
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One of my most interesting snippets is that a gt gt (however many times) granny of my husband left to her son "a mourning ring given by Mr COLEMAN (I think) to Mr ROGERS to give to my son George after my decease". I can't remember the gentlemen's names exactly without digging the will out.
What are you thoughts on this Nell?
We are talking about a 1740 death. Jane SLOAN of Dymchurch Kent was the widow of a HM Customs Riding Officer. They had several children in Dymchurch (1710s) but no mention of a son George. There was only one known child (direct ancestor) who appears to have married (the others died unmarried). I have found no mention of this George anywhere - no baptism, marriage, burial - except for this will.
There was no local marriage of Thomas SLOAN to Jane but they could have come from anywhere - SLOAN is definitely not a Kent name - maybe South West Scotland? The HM Customs records at PRO nor the museum survive for this area at that date - well not the ones that would be useful. It stands to reason that Thomas SLOAN was posted to Dymchurch at some stage due to his occupation but what puzzles me is this son George. He may well have been born before they arrived in dymchurch assuming that he was the son of Thomas SLOAN also.
It's not practical for me to even contemplate searching the customs records for much of the country in my quest to find Thomas' origins but I would like to solve the mystery of this bequest.
Why would a gentleman give another gentleman a mourning ring and ask him to pass it on to George SLOAN when his mother died? Would you think that he could have been George's father? Would he have been a relation of Jane's perhaps? I can get my head round most things but I can't come up with a logical explanation for this. Have you come across this type of thing before?
It is in my plans to research these two gentlemen concerned but just haven't got round to it yet.
I would appreciate your thoughts on this.
Casalguidi
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Little Nell
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Hmmm
Well, mourning rings were quite a common thing either to bequeath or leave a monetary bequest for the purchase thereof. There are some beautiful examples on this site:
http://www.victoriaspast.com/LadyinBlack/MourningRings.htm
I'm wondering if the mysterious George is the widow Sloan's son from a previous marriage - hence no baptism etc because he might have had a different name? Maybe Rogers, which is why she wants George to have the ring and Mr Coleman was another relative or close friend of Mr Rogers? Does the will give George's surname at all? Just a thought. 
Nell
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casalguidi
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Hi Nell
I can't remember if it says George's surname but if it does it is definitely SLOAN. I will have to take a look tomorrow - it's a bit late to start reading old wills
Yes, I am quite familiar with the usage of mourning jewellery/traditions etc., it was just that I found this instruction a little unsual. I certainly haven't come across it before. The rest of the will is pretty basic - the usual stuff for the time period.
I'll take a look tomorrow and see if I've missed/forgotten something. In any case, I think it's probably time to start deliving into Mr COLEMAN and Mr ROGERS to see if something emerges there. 
Thanks
Casalguidi
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D ap D
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Stuck with John Jones in Wales? Join the club!
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I've got quite a few wills of various ancestors. The most comprehensive is dated 1814 and is 15 pages long. However, it only mentions his adult children (and several other people I'm still trying to identify). It does give an excellent insight into the status of the family at the time.
At the other end of the scale I received one just before Xmas which left "everything to my wife and daughter". As the estate covered 2 farms and a couple of thousand pounds, which in the 1930s was not insignificant, i was a bit disappointed. But thats the way it goes. I do think wills are far more interesting than BMD certs, and also cost less
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Stuck with: William Williams of Llanllyfni John Jones in Llanelli Evan Evans in Caio David Davies of Llansanffraid Evans: Caio/Carms Jones: CDG, DEN Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk"Nor do I think that any other nation than this of Wales, or any other tongue, whatever may hereafter come to pass, shall on the day of the great reckoning before the Most High Judge, answer for this corner of the earth": The Old Man of Pencader to Henry II |
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teddybear1843
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 682
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WILLS!!!
Oh how I love them, they are the personal thoughts of people who lived long ago, written while they were alive and often as they spoke! How much more personal can you get?
Maiden aunts' wills are often good as are single adult's as they will go into distant relatives with bequests and often clear up family confusions.
Some will tell of family feuds if that's how you spell it! One I saw was great as it said that son ... and wife cannot enter house or take anything from the house when the testator dies and will get nothing. I never have found out why.
One of my wife's family left a bequest to put up a stone in the graveyard and, yes, it is still there. One of my lot listed all his seven children and the bastard child of daughter... by... the husband of her sister!!!!!!! Keep it in the family!
Oh I could go on fer ever............but wont.
BUT. Don't forget Admons, that is the only place I have seen the X of my seven times great grandmother when she swore that she was her late husband's wife. That was in the days that we could see the originals too, so I held the piece of paper that my ancestor had held nearly three hundred years ago just after her husband had died. WOW!
Ignore this source at your peril. If you want a family HISTORY, wills & admons are a must.
Teddybear
Oh yes, some are boring but so are parish registers!
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Bear, Burrows, Burroughs, Goll, Mayes, Yull, Bacon, Harvey, Fenn, Youngman, Jary, Lake, Chesney, Yaxley, Freestone, Briggs, Carrington, Frarey, Blaxter, Bennefer, Gosman, Howard, Wildman, Woodbine, Jessop, Taylor, Walpole, etc etc all in Norfolk. Weasenham village history and families connected to the villages of Weasenham All Saints & Saint Peter in Norfolk. Happy to carry out research in Norfolk. Please PM for details. http://norfolktours.110mb.com/ |
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casalguidi
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Right, here is the extract relating to the 1740 will of Jane SLOAN (my earlier posting):
"unto my loving son George SLOANE one mourning gold ring which was given to Mr Francis ROGERS deceased at the funeral of Mr Edward COLEMAN late of Dymchurch also deceased to be delivered to my said son George SLOANE by my said executrix"
Read it more than once and you start getting a headache .............. 
In my earlier posting, I stated that Mr COLEMAN gave the ring to Mr ROGERS. The actual wording is not quite like that is it? Though one could perhaps assume that it was upon the direction of the late Edward COLEMAN.
It's probably time to look for some wills for COLEMAN and ROGERS. Francis ROGERS was HM Customs, like Jane's husband, in Dymchurch and I know that the COLEMANS were quite an affluent family so will just have to hope that something comes to light. I should have done it ages ago but ............ you know .........
There's a lovely inscription for Francis ROGERS:
http://www.kentarchaeology.org.uk/Research/Libr/MIs/MIsDymchurch/MIsDymchurch.htm
Casalguidi
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Little Nell
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You're right, casalguidi, there is another way of reading that. Very curious. And I think it worth further investigation if you have the time and inclination. I have to go back to the record office sometime (unfortunately this one is a long car drive away) to finish checking some correspondence which might just answer a mystery.
Nell
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Mobo
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Posts: 2404
Forever Searching
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How about this old meanie - cousin to my gt.gt grandfather ?
In the last will and testament of Robert Williamson - Broker of Broughton Lancs, dated 12 August 1814, we see .............".to my son Robert (a soldier) and Rebecca who married Wm Tyers, £5 each for ignoring my wishes..............children Samuel & Elizabeth inherit entire estate....... and wife Alice is left nothing for behaving herself badly and being a wicked spendthrift"........... Wit. Thos. Hall & Edmund Downes.
Estate worth Ten thousand Pounds
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BUCKLEY, Ches. DUNN, Ireland & Lancs. EDGSON, Rutland, Leics & Lancs. LYON, Lancs. McNULTY, Ireland & Lancs. MORRIS, Beds, Hunts & Lancs. TURNER, Lancs. WILLIAMSON, Lancs. Website: http://www.ag19pfalz36.plus.com/All Census Data included in this post is Crown Copyright (see: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk) |
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Boongie Pam
Global Moderator
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2497
Pa is Scottish, Ma is Welsh, Nose is Roamin'
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Well you've definitely made me track down more wills if I can!
Here's the transcript of the Lowther one I mentioned...
http://wills4all.netfirms.com/william_lowther.htm
genresearch asked if I wanted to add it to their "free wills 4 all site "so I did.
So if you haven't used any wills yet here's an example of a small farmer who'd invested in a few houses. The son of an earthenware dealer.
Pam
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All census look up transcriptions are Crown Copyright
~~~~~~~~~~~
Dumfrieshire: Fallen, Fallon, Carruthers, Scott, Farish, Aitchison, Green, Ryecroft, Thomson, Stewart
Midlothian: Linn/d, Aitken, Martin
North Wales: Robins(on), Hughes, Parry, Jones
Cumberland: Lowther, Young, Steward, Miller
Somerset: Palmer, Cork, Greedy, Clothier
Currently offline due to work reasons- sorry for the silence!
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