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Topic: A bit of a weird one (Read 407 times)
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elsiegee1
RootsChat Member
Posts: 201
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Hi all,
My grandfather John (Jack) Gillan (sometimes Brown Gillan) was born in Yoker, Renfrewshire, Scotland in 1898. According to my family, he was in prison in Mexico in the 1920s then deported back to UK. I have a feeling this may be true as his brother Hugh moved to Mexico, married a Mexican girl and had something to do with a gold mine over there. Judging by his reputation as the 'black sheep' it certainly rings true that he would have followed his brother and got into trouble.
I'm just not sure where to even start finding out why he went to prison? How would have have got to Mexico back then? How can I find out about Mexican marriages (that may be a start?)?
He later was in prison in Devon for not paying maintenance for his children (he had 10 altogether) and I am struggling to find anything about this either, being stuck in Coventry. I am guesstimating that this would have been between 1935-50, but 15 years is a big search.
Would be grateful for any help on either of these issues....
Thanks
Elsie
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Gillan (Glasgow, Ireland & Devon), Smith (Coventry & Plymouth), Rice (Coventry & Birmingham), Henchcliffe (Derby, Stoke, Coventry), Randle (Coventry)
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elsiegee1
RootsChat Member
Posts: 201
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Hi again,
I have just found a passenger list on findmypast.com for a ship called the Pretorian. I had a sudden thought that maybe they didn't go direct to Mexico. There is a listing for a Hugh Gillan (their father) and a Hugh Gillan Jnr and a John Gillan all on the same ship in 1907, but they go to Quebec instead. I suppose they could've worked their way down ?
Also although it is obviously father and two sons, the ages seem way out. I know Hugh the elder couldn't read/write, but his own age is listed as 54 when it should be 50, Hugh Jnr is 18 when he should be 29, and John is 16 when he should be only about 8.
can we have a vote on whether it may be the correct record or not?
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Gillan (Glasgow, Ireland & Devon), Smith (Coventry & Plymouth), Rice (Coventry & Birmingham), Henchcliffe (Derby, Stoke, Coventry), Randle (Coventry)
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jorose
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 4653
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Do you have the exact date for when the Pretorian left/arrived?
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/archivianet/passenger/index-e.html
- there were several sailings, but you should be able to find them on the lists going into Canada, and check if the ages are right.
Ancestry seems to have LOTS of records for a Hugh Gillan crossing into the US from Mexico, multiple times, possibly with other family (no John/Jack though) I can't access these, however. Maybe someone else can.
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jorose
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 4653
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British Bonus was money given to the steamship company for booking the 'right' sort of immigrants on passages to Canada. I don't know of any reason why they might change their ages so dramatically. They appear to have been headed to Hamilton (in Ontario). Also, the man just below them was supposed to be British Bonus but then went to the US, so the bonus for him was deducted.
www.ellisisland.org has a possible Hugh Gillan, an engineer, previously residing in Mexico, who came into NY in 1909. It says that is his first visit to the US - so did he go straight to Mexico?
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elsiegee1
RootsChat Member
Posts: 201
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Well the one you've found is definitely Hugh the younger, as he married Sadie Nolan in Mexico. Thanks !
So, that means he either went straight to Mexico, or it was easier to say he did. That's one hell of a red herring though...
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Gillan (Glasgow, Ireland & Devon), Smith (Coventry & Plymouth), Rice (Coventry & Birmingham), Henchcliffe (Derby, Stoke, Coventry), Randle (Coventry)
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jorose
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 4653
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'non immigrant alien' means someone who is not intending to stay in the US and become a resident/citizen. Or someone who at least said that!  People just visiting relatives or on business trips, for example.
David Curie and Hugh are both listed as engineers and non-immigrants, heading to Glasgow and 'T' is marked in the far left hand column which might mean 'transit' - i.e., they were only stopping over (I think on the way back to visit Scotland?). They are in the saloon/first class section of the manifest - fancy! That would also explain why no address in the US is given - they probably changed ships at NY and didn't stay more than a day or so.
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elsiegee1
RootsChat Member
Posts: 201
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Thanks Jorose, I didn't know where to start, this is great.
I've had a lok around for the next step in the journey back to Glasgow but cannot find it - any clues on that one?
Or where would have records for the original, possibly 'direct' journey to Mexico?
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Gillan (Glasgow, Ireland & Devon), Smith (Coventry & Plymouth), Rice (Coventry & Birmingham), Henchcliffe (Derby, Stoke, Coventry), Randle (Coventry)
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fieryfemale
RootsChat Member
Posts: 149
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Information removed due to copyright violation. See http://www.rootschat.com/forum/copyright.php for more details
RootsChat must deal with any breach of copyright by its members.
For some time the team of Copyright Editors has been removing breaches of copyright and sending detailed personal messages to the member that had posted the information. Due to the volume of posts and members this is now impractical. Messages in breach will simply be deleted and this notice posted. We apologise for any inconvenience caused but are sure you will appreciate the importance of this issue.
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« Last Edit: Friday 14 March 08 11:58 UTC (UK) by copyright_editor »
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Anderson & Marr - Midlothian & East Lothian Bennett - Devonport Catleugh & Shiells - East Lothian Cullen & Dowling - Waterford, Ireland Gillman - Hadleigh, Essex Littlejohns - Plymouth & London Lonie - Fife Mansfield - Benfleet & St Pancras Michelin - London Newlands - Midlothian & Fife Paterson - Canongate, Midlothian Rutherford - Roxburghshire Taylor - East Lothian & Berwickshire Thomson - Leith & Muthill Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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fieryfemale
RootsChat Member
Posts: 149
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just looked at the actual image and it looks liek they were in the steerage and next to their names is Hamilton, Ontario. Perhaps this was their final destination?
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Anderson & Marr - Midlothian & East Lothian Bennett - Devonport Catleugh & Shiells - East Lothian Cullen & Dowling - Waterford, Ireland Gillman - Hadleigh, Essex Littlejohns - Plymouth & London Lonie - Fife Mansfield - Benfleet & St Pancras Michelin - London Newlands - Midlothian & Fife Paterson - Canongate, Midlothian Rutherford - Roxburghshire Taylor - East Lothian & Berwickshire Thomson - Leith & Muthill Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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elsiegee1
RootsChat Member
Posts: 201
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Thanks fieryfemale,
The only thing that worries me about these entries is the ages, as I mentioned earlier, but it looks too much of a coincidence not to be them. I wonder if they could've got a ship from Canada to Mexico after that? That would explain why, later on, Hugh said it was his first trip to US, if he missed it out altogether on the way down?
Jorose, to go from steerage to first class in 2 yrs may surely mean the gold mine theory has some credit to it?
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Gillan (Glasgow, Ireland & Devon), Smith (Coventry & Plymouth), Rice (Coventry & Birmingham), Henchcliffe (Derby, Stoke, Coventry), Randle (Coventry)
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