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Author Topic: Lookup Request - John Evans, Llanrhidian Higher  (Read 586 times)
Columbo
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Lookup Request - John Evans, Llanrhidian Higher
« on: Sunday 30 December 07 18:43 UTC (UK) »
I am trying to find the parents of Evan Evans born 1837 who lived in Llanrhidian Higher (Penclawdd). The marriage certificate of Evan and Catherine (they married in 1860) says Evan was born in Llanrhidian Higher and that his father was John Evans, labourer from Llanrhidian Higher.

I would be grateful for anything that can help me trace John Evans and also anything that will help find out who Evan Evans's mother was.

I have some information on Evan but nothing that helps establish who his parents were.

Thanks.
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Evans Jenkins Tucker Godfrey Courtney
osprey
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Lookup Request - John Evans, Llanrhidian Higher
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 30 December 07 19:01 UTC (UK) »
I searched for Evan & John after your previous post, and even though I went through the various parts of Llanrhidian page by page, I could see no sign.

I'm puzzled when you say Evan's place of birth is on the marriage certificate.  It should be the place of residence - place of birth doesn't appear on English & Welsh marriage certs.

Undecided
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Cornwall: Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Kellett, Tebb
ricky1
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Re: Lookup Request - John Evans, Llanrhidian Higher
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 30 December 07 19:22 UTC (UK) »
Hi Columbo and Osprey

Is he the one on the 1851 census living in Llanrhidian Higher, as a farm serv, but says born Loughor Huh

H0107/ 2465
folio 459
page 22

ricky
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Harby,Garton,Drury,Duncombe,Booth,Catton,Barker, Kirkby, Wilson. Lincolnshire,
Also Murkin's, Jeffery,Pettitt,Carter, from Suffolk/Cambridgeshire boarder
Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
osprey
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Lookup Request - John Evans, Llanrhidian Higher
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 30 December 07 20:13 UTC (UK) »
Yes, that's the one Columbo already has - post is on the main Glamorgan board. Think Evan was at Poundffald in Three Crosses. Loughor and Llanrhidian Higher parishes share a boundary and the distances involved aren't great, but steep in parts. I used to walk up to Three Crosses every now and again - great views, but
you know you've climbed a hill.

Cheesy
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Cornwall: Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Kellett, Tebb
Columbo
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Lookup Request - John Evans, Llanrhidian Higher
« Reply #4 on: Monday 31 December 07 14:24 UTC (UK) »
Thanks both. Yes I think the census record for 1851 which says Evan was a servant in the Three Crosses area and born in Loughor is the same Evan Evans I am searching. Older members of the family were told he had been brought up in the Three Crosses area.

My apologies - the marriage certificate actually says Evan's residence was Tyrwilcock, Llanrhidian Higher at time of marriage. A local historian has shown me an old 1800s map of the area which shows Tyrwilcock as a group of miners cottages in a field behind the Berthlwyd Inn which is about a mile from Three Crosses. 

The census record of 1861, 1871 and 1881 all say Evan Evans was born in Llanrhidian Higher. There is no record of him on the 1841 census in that area. His marriage certificate in 1860 says his father was John Evans labourer who resided at Llanrhidian Higher. I cant find anyone of the name John Evans, labourer on the 1841, 1851, or 1861 census of a suitable age. However I have 2 interesting possibilities. The first is John Evans (Reverend) living in Three Crosses in 1851 and 1861 and Evan worked nearby as a servant, and there was also a John Evans who mysteriously left the area around that time (according to a summary I have seen of the Brynhir farm estate papers of the Evans family held at the West Glamorgan Archives). The John Evans that went missing was the oldest son of the Penclawdd and Three Crosses landowner farmer also called John Evans. Both of these are long shots though. I wonder if Evan Evans may have been illigitimate and if so is there any way of finding out any more ?

I dont know how much further I can get - unless there are chapel records, or perhaps the West Glam Archive Brynhir papers may have more details, or if I can find a John Evans of the right age on the 1851 or 1861 census records.    Undecided
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Evans Jenkins Tucker Godfrey Courtney
osprey
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Re: Lookup Request - John Evans, Llanrhidian Higher
« Reply #5 on: Monday 31 December 07 21:55 UTC (UK) »
the Berthlwyd is on the north Gower road between Gowerton and Penclawdd, nearer Penclawdd though. There's a track from behind it that meets the Wern just below Three Crosses - another nice walk!

But how to progress from here? parish records for Evan's baptism perhaps? I can't remember if you mention where the couple were married - church or chapel? I doubt he is the son of the Reverend John as he's not with that family in 1841 and he would have said minister for father's occupation at his marriage. The other family sounds more interesting though.

I did spot a marriage for a John Evan in Llanrhidian that might be worth checking out.
It was 10/12/1829 to Emm? Philip? - possibly transcriber couldn't make out wife's name. I can't see any sign of either of them on 1841 census. Glamorgan Family History Society has transcripts of the registers for a fee if you can't get to to the National Library in Aberystwyth.

Undecided
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Cornwall: Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Kellett, Tebb
Columbo
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Re: Lookup Request - John Evans, Llanrhidian Higher
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 01 January 08 22:41 UTC (UK) »
Hi Osprey and Ricky - thanks for your help. Just to mention that there have been suggestions from older family members that Evan's mother or perhaps his father originated from West Wales (Carmarthenshire or Cardiganshire etc). I am 100% certain the 1861, 1871, and 1881 census records are definitely describing him because of his wife and children's names and ages and they consistently say he was born in Llanrhidian Higher. However there is nothing on the Llanrhidian parish records and I have not found anything of his birth on nearby parish records either (eg. Swansea, Bishopston, Ilston, Loughor). If he was not illigitimate and born in llanrhidian or nearby then surely there would be a birth record. Doesn't seem to make sense with no birth record. What do you think ?  Huh
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Evans Jenkins Tucker Godfrey Courtney
osprey
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Re: Lookup Request - John Evans, Llanrhidian Higher
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 02 January 08 21:16 UTC (UK) »
Which records have you checked? Only the established church or all the non-conformist ones as well? Some non-conformists don't practice infant baptism, so there will be no records.
Have you checked Llandeilo Talybont - the other side of Loughor bordering Carmarthenshire?

What about some of the south Gower parishes? - Reynoldston, Oxwich, Penrice or the ones to the west of Llanrhidian - Cheriton and Llangennith?
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Cornwall: Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Kellett, Tebb
Columbo
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Lookup Request - John Evans, Llanrhidian Higher
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 03 January 08 18:22 UTC (UK) »
Thanks again. Looks like I have not yet exhausted all the possibilities to find Evan's birth record. I've checked the established church and the BMD index, though I haven't checked the Llandeilo Talybont, Oxwich or Penrice church parish records yet. Is there a way of finding out if Llanrhidian non-conformists had birth records or where I could obtain them ?    Cheesy  Also (sorry about this), Evan's marriage record just says labourer - it doesnt say where John was from or where he was living. (I had previoulsy said he resided in Llanrhidian).  Embarrassed
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Evans Jenkins Tucker Godfrey Courtney
osprey
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Lookup Request - John Evans, Llanrhidian Higher
« Reply #9 on: Friday 04 January 08 09:45 UTC (UK) »
just a few chapels in the area  Roll Eyes

www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/GLA/Llanrhidian/Chapels.html

first port of call for the records the archives in Swansea

www.swansea.gov.uk/index.cfm?articleid=406

The Glamorgan Family History Society might be worth checking out.

 
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Cornwall: Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Kellett, Tebb
Columbo
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Lookup Request - John Evans, Llanrhidian Higher
« Reply #10 on: Saturday 13 December 08 20:38 UTC (UK) »
If Evan was born in Loughor around 1837 but brought up with a different family in the area (eg. probably either Loughor or Llanrhidian parish), then surely he would show up on the 1841 census in one of the local parishes but there is no sign of him. What would the explanation be for this - is there a possibility he had a different surname and changed it ? Or is he there somewhere but perhaps there's a transcription error on the census ? 
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Evans Jenkins Tucker Godfrey Courtney
osprey
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Re: Lookup Request - John Evans, Llanrhidian Higher
« Reply #11 on: Saturday 13 December 08 21:46 UTC (UK) »
as family relationships are not shown on the 1841 census, if he's with another family, there is no way of knowing. There are also no places of birth given, only in county or not in county. If, say, both his parents had died before the census, and he's with a relative with the same surname, he would appear to be one of their children. There is no differentiation. If he's enumerated with a different surname, he would be totally unidentifiable. And there's always the possibility, he's not on the census at all. It happens!
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Cornwall: Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Kellett, Tebb
Columbo
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Lookup Request - John Evans, Llanrhidian Higher
« Reply #12 on: Sunday 14 December 08 17:50 UTC (UK) »
Thanks. Some of the things I plan on investigating before I finally give up!!

1. The chapel records.
2. Look for a record of Evan's father John Evans on one of the census records in the area. I've found a few labourers called John Evans of the right sort of age.
3. Look for an Evan of any surname born around 1837 in the area.

I am still hoping there is something in the chapel or census records of the Loughor or Three Crosses area around Cefnstyllell that will shed some light on this as I believe there is something in the story that he may have been brought up by a family in that area. However, the lack of a birth record may mean I have to give up. 
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Evans Jenkins Tucker Godfrey Courtney
osprey
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Lookup Request - John Evans, Llanrhidian Higher
« Reply #13 on: Monday 15 December 08 21:42 UTC (UK) »
Just one little thing, the road name is Cefnstylle. I think the road name changed in the late sixties or early seventies and was Wern before that, Banc y Cwm was formerly the part at the bottom (north) just off the Gowerton to Penclawdd road.
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Cornwall: Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Kellett, Tebb
Columbo
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Lookup Request - John Evans, Llanrhidian Higher
« Reply #14 on: Friday 09 January 09 21:05 UTC (UK) »
I have just found out that there is something called Bastardy Bonds which could be a source of information of parents of illigitimate children. However I have no idea where to look. Any advice appreciated to help in my search for the parents of Evan Evans born 1837. Thanks
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Evans Jenkins Tucker Godfrey Courtney
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