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Topic: HARRIS, SHERRATT, East Anglia (Read 2092 times)
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Cuxwold
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Posts: 32
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi
I am descended from the Thorpe family, my grt grandfather was Edmund Thorpe bn 1838.
He was the brother of James Thorpe bn 1851 who was the grandfather of Sylvester Thorpe who married John Harris.
I only have 2 children in the 1901 census , Mark 1900 and John 1900.
I have John Harris as having 4 siblings Arthur , Reuben who married Alice Lamb, Euphemia who married Hiram Wilson and Rodney
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deb usa
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Posts: 4844
There has to be royalty somewhere!
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Hi
Hope I'm not butting in ...  I have been looking around for your people.
I noticed in 1901... with Sylvester and John Harris , are James (50 ) and Sarah Thorpe. I think that James had married before ....
1881
Oldham , St Marys, Lancashire
Tommy Field
James Thorpe mar head hawker b cambs, kings Lyn?
Eliza wife mar 36 b Cambs, Kings Lyn?
James son 6 not attending school b Cambs Kings lyn?
Eliza dau 4 " b York, Halifax
SILVESTER dau 3 b York, Bradford ... she married John Harris
Edmund son 7m b York , Huddersfield
deb
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penfold, orchard, james , richards (travellers/romanies)
middleton, waterfield, skinner,adams, bray (devon, tiverton,silverton areas)
palmer,slack, smith, carnarton (cornwall)
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deb usa
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Posts: 4844
There has to be royalty somewhere!
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Hi again
i can only find one good possible birth for James and Eliza Thorpes' children;
Edmund Thorpe
sept q 1880
Huddersfield Yorkshire
vol 9a p 338
This birth cert would at least give you Eliza's maiden name .
deb 
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penfold, orchard, james , richards (travellers/romanies)
middleton, waterfield, skinner,adams, bray (devon, tiverton,silverton areas)
palmer,slack, smith, carnarton (cornwall)
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deb usa
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Posts: 4844
There has to be royalty somewhere!
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Hi ...I hope I am not repeating info that others may have;
This is the 1871 census of james Thorpe b 1851, father of Sylvester who married John Harris.
1871
Crown Inn. St Paul, Cambridge
James Thorpe head 53 traveller b cambs
Eliza wife 53 b finchley, Middlesex
JAMES son 19 traveller b Cambs, Pampisford
Providence dau 17 b Milden Hall, Suffolk
Emanuel son 15 b Suffolk
Roads of May niece 11 b Shropshire ..... what a FABULOUS name 
Ambrose son 6
deb
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penfold, orchard, james , richards (travellers/romanies)
middleton, waterfield, skinner,adams, bray (devon, tiverton,silverton areas)
palmer,slack, smith, carnarton (cornwall)
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Cuxwold
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi
the earlest census record I can find is for 1861
the parents are James and Elizabeth (nee Buttress).
The children were...Edmund ( my grt grandfather) bn 1838.Ambrose bn 1841..Edengaile bn 1845..Eliza bn 1848..Joseph bn 1849..Oliver bn 1847..Jmaes bn 1855..Holland bn 1850..Mace bn 1858 and Rhoda Herde, recorded as niece.
Edendgail married Henry Coxall,
Eliza married Mark Wilson.
Holland married Edward Frankland.
James married Eliza , I have no surname.
Ambrose married Leviathan Draper.
Edmund married Ann Cook
The Harris connection is via the daughter of James and Eliza, Sylvester ,who married John Harris
John Harris's sister Euphemia Harris married Hiram Wilson, the son of Eliza Thorpe and Mark Wilson.
John Harris's parents were John Harris and Abigail Gray.
The James Thorpe, parent from 1861, was the son of a James Thorpe and Silveter Gray.
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I forget
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Posts: 48
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A big thankyou to everyone who has posted recently,
I've been away, plus following up some leads on my husbands family.
Just to let you know I really do appreciate all the info, I will post again once I've had time to digest all this, my head is still spinning!! 
Can anyone find the Sherratts? The only ones with a Walter approx 1yr old in 1901 do not look like travellers or showmen. They may be near Wellingborough as this is where the most likely birth index record is. (his dad is John Sherratt listed as a general dealer, just like John Harris on Sylvester Harris junior and Walter Sherratts s marriage cert)
Please don't worry about butting in, any info which is related to Harris/Thorpe or the Sherratts is welcome. I can record it all then see how things fit (or not) later on.
Cheers
Cindy
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LANCASHIRE: Briscoe, Taylor, Hamilton, Cutts, Mousdell, Dixon, Fairclough, Dingle, Pennington, Ingham, Martin, Pinnington, Haselden, Molyneux
CHESHIRE/DENBEIGHSHIRE: Briscoe, Gibson, Tudor
SCOTLAND: Hunt, Murray, Docherty, Malley, Cameron, Colman, Middleton, Mason, Drummond, Gourdale, Fraser
Traveller/East Anglia and beyond!: Harris, Sherratt, Thorpe
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Lesley1
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Posts: 14
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Dear All
If any one can let me know where Trinity Mayhew HARRIS and his family belongs to this would be fantastic. Seems like the surnames HARRIS, GRAY, LAMB, SIELEY, OSBORNE all connect with each other some how.
Love to hear from those who connect with all these.
Lesley
Descendants of Trinity Mayhew Harris
1. TRINITY MAYHEW1 HARRIS was born Bet. 1824 - 1832 in Linton, Cambridgeshire, and died Dec 1884 in Lyng, Norfolk. He married MARY ANN ?. She was born 1834 in Boston, Lincolnshire or Cambridgeshire.
TRINITY MAYHEW HARRIS:
The 1881 Census
Name: Trinity Harris
Age: 54
Birth Year: abt 1827
Relation: Lodger
Where born: Wickling
Civil Parish: Burnham Westgate
Add: Front St
Occ: Gen Dealer
Registration district: Docking
Elizabeth Farrow 45
John Farrow 64
T. Harris 18
J. Harris 22
Trinity Harris 54 married
Syderstone Parish Register has Trinity as - Trinity May Hugh Harris a Brazier.
TRINITY MAYHEW HARRIS:
Burial: 02 Jan 1885, St Michael, Lyng
Census: 1861, Watton Road, Carbrooke
Living: 1868, Syderstone, Norfolk
Occ: Hawker
Children of TRINITY HARRIS and MARY ? are:
i. WILLIAM2 HARRIS, b. Abt. 1854, East Dereham.
2. ii. GEORGE HARRIS, b. Bet. 1854 - 1856, Ely, Cambridgeshire; d. Abt. Dec 1896, Mitford 4b 181.
3. iii. JOHN HARRIS, b. Abt. Mar 1859, Watton, Norfolk; d. Bef. 1916.
iv. CHARLES HARRIS, b. Abt. Feb 1861, Carbrooke, Norfolk.
Baptised: 15 Mar 1861, St Peter & St Paul, Carbrooke, Norfolk
v. ST SWITHIN TRINITY HARRIS, b. Abt. 1866, Swaffham/Fakenham.
Baptised: 06 Sep 1868, Syderstone parish Church
vi. PATIENCE HARRIS, b. Abt. 1867, Norwich, Norfolk.
Baptised: 06 Sep 1868, Syderstone Parish Church
vii. SARAH HARRIS, b. Abt. Jun 1868, Syderstone.
Baptised: 06 Sep 1868, Syderstone Parish Church
2. GEORGE2 HARRIS (TRINITY MAYHEW1) was born Bet. 1854 - 1856 in Ely, Cambridgeshire, and died Abt. Dec 1896 in Mitford 4b 181. He married HANNAH MELTON Abt. Jun 1880 in Mitford 4b 472, daughter of WILLIAM MELTON and SUSAN BELL. She was born 1863 in Whissonsett, and died Abt. Sep 1916 in Mitford 4b 262.
GEORGE HARRIS and HANNAH MELTON:
Marriage: Abt. Jun 1880, Mitford 4b 472
Children of GEORGE HARRIS and HANNAH MELTON are:
i. JOHN3 HARRIS, b. Abt. Mar 1881, Whissonsett; m. FLORA ?, Bef. 1901; b. Abt. 1880, Litcham, Norfolk.
JOHN HARRIS:
Census: 1901, Boarding at Edward Melton b Whissonsett in Rawmarsh, Yorkshire
Occ: 1901, General Labourer
Marriage: Bef. 1901
ii. MABEL HARRIS, b. Abt. Jun 1883, Mileham; d. Abt. Mar 1905, Mitford 4b 193.
iii. WILLIAM HARRIS, b. Abt. Jun 1891, Whissonsett.
iv. GEORGE HARRIS, b. Abt. Jun 1896, Whissonsett.
v. DORA HARRIS, b. Abt. Jun 1899, Whissonsett.
3. JOHN2 HARRIS (TRINITY MAYHEW1) was born Abt. Mar 1859 in Watton, Norfolk, and died Bef. 1916. He married PATIENCE OSBORN Aft. 1881, daughter of DANIEL OSBORN and SUSAN GRAY. She was born 01 Apr 1861 in Ber Street, St John Sepulchre, Norwich, and died 12 Nov 1908 in Grimstone, Norfolk.
JOHN HARRIS:
Births Mar 1859
HARRIS John Wayland 4b 286
Possible Deaths Sep 1914
Ray John 55 Blything 4a 1022
JOHN HARRIS:
Census: 1891, Near Aylsham Road in Van at Felmingham, Norfolk
Occ: Horse dealer
PATIENCE OSBORN:
Cause of Death: Confinement 28 October 1908/Septicaemia/Cardiac Failire
Medical Information: wife of John Osborne a licensed hawker widower of the deceased present at the death Grimstone 13.11.1908. certified by C S Woodward M.R.C.S.
JOHN HARRIS and PATIENCE OSBORN:
Marriage: Aft. 1881
Children of JOHN HARRIS and PATIENCE OSBORN are:
i. DANIEL3 LAMB, b. 13 May 1883, Bradfield Road, North Walsham, Erpingham 4b 64; d. Abt. Jul 1945, East Dereham.
DANIEL LAMB:
Jun 1883
Lamb Daniel Erpingham 4b 64
ii. DELIA (GOLIA) LAMB, b. 30 Nov 1884, Aylsham, Norfolk.
DELIA (GOLIA) LAMB:
On Golia's birth certificate Patience maiden name is Harris.
4. iii. SAUNDERS LAMB, b. 05 Dec 1886, Briston, Norfolk; d. 24 May 1946, Norfolk & Norwich Hospital.
iv. AMOS LAMB, b. Abt. Mar 1889, Erpingham 4b 73; d. Abt. Sep 1906, Erpingham 4b 40.
5. v. PATIENCE OSBORN RAY, b. 28 Mar 1891, Felmingham, Norfolk; d. Abt. Sep 1956, Wisbech.
6. vi. ELLEN RAY, b. Abt. Mar 1893, Ridlington, Smallburgh 4b 60; d. Abt. Sep 1973, Wisbech 4a 322.
vii. BENJAMIN RAY, b. 15 Sep 1899, Great Ellingham, Norfolk; d. 21 Jul 1965, East Dereham, Norfolk; m. MAY VICTORIA WEALES, Abt. Sep 1921, Mitford 4b 649; b. Abt. Jun 1897, East Dereham, Norfolk; d. Abt. Mar 1965, East Dereham.
MAY VICTORIA WEALES:
Burial: 03 Mar 1965, East Dereham Cemetery
BENJAMIN RAY and MAY WEALES:
Marriage: Abt. Sep 1921, Mitford 4b 649
viii. GENTA RAY, b. 15 Apr 1902, Lessingham, Norfolk.
ix. FANNY OSBORN, b. 28 Oct 1908, Grimstone, Norfolk; d. Nov 1908, Grimstone, Norfolk.
x. JANE OSBORN, b. 28 Oct 1908, Grimstone, Norfolk; d. Nov 1908, Grimstone, Norfolk.
4. SAUNDERS3 LAMB (JOHN2 HARRIS, TRINITY MAYHEW1) was born 05 Dec 1886 in Briston, Norfolk2, and died 24 May 1946 in Norfolk & Norwich Hospital. He married ROSE ELLEN ELLIOTT 01 Mar 1918 in Register Office, E. Dereham, Norfolk, daughter of JAMES ELLIOTT and ELIZABETH PARSLEY. She was born 27 Jan 1898 in East Dereham, Norfolk, and died 18 Dec 1959 in Dereham Hospital, Norfolk.
SAUNDERS LAMB:
Known as Sidney John Wray
Births Dec 1886
Lamb Saunders Erpingham 4b 76
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Norfolk: Freezer, Winter, Tye, Twigg, Harman, Osborn, Sieley, Wray, Gray, Saddleton/Sadler, Ray, Elliott, Copling, Newstead, Parsley, Payne, Purple, Watkins, Atmore, Butters, Boyce,
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An65
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Posts: 392
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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This convo so interesting, The Shaws, Thorpes, Loveridges and Harrises married into the Grays. I havent looked into this side nearly enough to know much, but I have some refs which may prove useful to anyone researching the Harris Family.
Silva Gray (who became known as Silvester Gray) c.1793 Orwell Cam married Stephen Thorpe. I question if Stephen Thorpe corresponds to James Thorpe who married Elizabeth Buttress. Silva had a sister, Dinah who married Jim Shaw.
Silva and Dinah were daughters of Fowk/Founess Gray and Mary and its possible he (Fowk), had a brother Robert who married Mary Leighton and had a son Robert (b.1799 Isleham Cam) who married Sarah Harris (b.cir 1804 Cilington Cam).
Robert and Sarah had a son William b.cir 1839 c.1842 Stoke Ferry, who married Silvester Thorpe b.cir 1851 and had a daughter Beatrice in 1869.
An Ambrose Thorpe Gray c.1796 Bottisham Cam, s/o Wm Gray and Retty Smith married Maria Harris d/o John c.1815 Bedfordshire m1850 St Giles Cambridge.
Dinah Gray who married Jim Shaw had several children known as Thorpe and Shaw...
Silvester c.1819 Wicken Ex, married Stephen Loveridge
Cresana c.1818 Stotfold Bdf
Councillette b.cir 1820 married Jasper Shaw
Aquila (aka Amelia or Acorn) b.cir 1825 married James Andrews
Susannah c1826 Wrestlingworth Bdf married Jonas Shaw.
One more thing that may prove to be of interest:
There was a story somewhere heaven only knows where I cant remember about Roads of May. She was a Hearn, and became known as Rhoda because no one could bear to hear her name. I think the story went something like they pulled into private land and the farmer came out to tell them to move on, and the mother was in labour, and was dying, and indeed despite the farmers wifes best intents, did die, leaving Roads of May without her mum.
Someone like Sharon (Citizen Smith) might be able to shed more light on this one. I really cant remember the story that well, but I know I read it somewhere way back when.
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Lesley1
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Posts: 14
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi
I take it this is the marriage
Marriages Jun 1865 (>99%)
~~~~~~~~
Buttris Sylvester Norwich 4b 201
GRAY William Norwich 4b 201
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Norfolk: Freezer, Winter, Tye, Twigg, Harman, Osborn, Sieley, Wray, Gray, Saddleton/Sadler, Ray, Elliott, Copling, Newstead, Parsley, Payne, Purple, Watkins, Atmore, Butters, Boyce,
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Lesley1
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Posts: 14
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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The IGI has the Gray's of Isleham Cambridge
IGI Individual Record FamilySearch™ International Genealogical Index v5.0
British Isles
Search Results | Download
~~~~~~~~
FOUNDNESS GRAY Pedigree
Male
~~~~~~~~
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 06 JAN 1811 Isleham, Cambridge, England
~~~~~~~~
Parents:
Father: RILEY GRAY Family
Mother: LYDIA
Therefore he was not the brother of Robert Gray who married Sarah Harris.
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Norfolk: Freezer, Winter, Tye, Twigg, Harman, Osborn, Sieley, Wray, Gray, Saddleton/Sadler, Ray, Elliott, Copling, Newstead, Parsley, Payne, Purple, Watkins, Atmore, Butters, Boyce,
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An65
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Posts: 392
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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First of all, Thanks Sharon I knew Id heard that story somewhere. You are a superstar. No wonder it seemed familiar - The Revd George Hall and the Gypsys Parson were read by myself abt 10 years ago. (or more!) I know its online now too.
Alfred Heron and Becky must surely translate to Alfred Heron and Rebecca Butteridge - or Butteress!!!
This would be the same family as that of Crimea "Nukes" Heron - and Alfred as named on the Heron Pedigree is none other than John Hearn b.cir 1811 Holbeach Lin according to census info regarding Crimeas family. What his real name was heaven alone knows, but Alfred = John in this instance.
As for
"FOUNDNESS GRAY Pedigree
Male
~~~~~~~~
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 06 JAN 1811 Isleham, Cambridge, England "
s/o Riley Gray and Lydia Sly - tjis is an earlier Founess Gray. I have details of his family (ie both Riley and son Founess)
This particular Founess married Constant/Constance Smith. The earlier one married a Mary.
It goes something like this:
Charles Gray b.cir 1763 Ashwell Hrts s/o Codilla married Aquila Smith and had
Riley in 1789 Fen Ditton Cam married Lydia Sly d/o James Sly and Sophia Gray b.1790 Barrington Cam.
Riley and Lydia Had:
Lydia married John Brand
Foundness married Constance/Constant Smith
Riley (1812-14)
Edward (1812-13)
Sophia (1815-18)
Mahala
Riley m. Harriet Steadman
Nancy
Sarah
The earlier Fowk/Founess b cir 1755 buried 1828 St Giles Cambridge married a Mary and an Ann.
He had:
Ambrose
Constance married Meshack Smith
Dinah married "Big: Jim Shaw
Silva married Stephen (James?) Thorpe
Eleanor
Holland d.1828 aged 31 Wood Ditton
and Thomas 1798 GT Shelford Cam (my presumed 4grt grandad).
who had a liason with Charlotte (later m. Charles Gray) which produced my 3xgt Grandad Christopher 1815 Thurlby By Bourne Lin, before settling with his permanent wife, Susan Gray d/o Thomas and Susannah Faben (ie sister of Piramus and John Budd "Jack" Gray. as well as Maria married Israel Gray and Esther married Bill Tansey.
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An65
RootsChat Senior
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Posts: 392
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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If What Ive picked up on Alfred (John) and Rebecca is halfway accurate:
Everilda b.cir 1840 Patringham Yks
Jack b.cir 1842 near lincoln m. Glorina Lovell and had Lenni and Minno.
Moses b.cir 1846 Howden Lin (Yks) or Betley Yks married Melvina or Melenia Lee and had: Sarah Ann, Rachel (Photo exists), Athol, Alfred, Sophia, George, Christopher or Christmas, Omega or Megga, and Jonas.
Oki (No Other Info)
Crimea (Nukes) b.cir 1856 Chatteris/Isle of Ely, or Sketty,Glamorgan, Wales, married Delaia or Deliah Lee and had: Rodi, Juli, Beatrice, Sequa, Oscar, James, Thomas, and Chesire.
Eldirifa b.cir 1851 near Huntingdon
Dola b.cir 1848 Peterborough
Anica b.cir 1852 Gloucester
Joanna (Hannah) b.cir 1854 Cambs married James Mochan
Aslog (no other info)
Lois (m) c.1843 Harmston Lincs
Rodi b.cir 1859-65 Monmouth "Flower of May" married Walter Hope.
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deb usa
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Posts: 4844
There has to be royalty somewhere!
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Hi all
Is this the same Roads of May ? ...see below
what a wonderful heritage .... I am from the Penfolds and Orchards.
Hi ...I hope I am not repeating info that others may have; This is the 1871 census of james Thorpe b 1851, father of Sylvester who married John Harris. 1871 Crown Inn. St Paul, Cambridge James Thorpe head 53 traveller b cambs Eliza wife 53 b finchley, Middlesex JAMES son 19 traveller b Cambs, PampisfordProvidence dau 17 b Milden Hall, Suffolk Emanuel son 15 b Suffolk Roads of May niece 11 b Shropshire ..... what a FABULOUS name Ambrose son 6 deb |
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penfold, orchard, james , richards (travellers/romanies)
middleton, waterfield, skinner,adams, bray (devon, tiverton,silverton areas)
palmer,slack, smith, carnarton (cornwall)
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An65
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Posts: 392
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Heres the rest of the family in 1861:
Gipsies Travelling, Balsham, Cam 1861
Charles Grey 1784 Teversham or Fordham, Cam. Gipsy Tinker and Fiddler (s/o Charles & Aquila)
Ann Grey 1795 Brinkley Cam (Mary Ann nee Thorpe)
Lucretia Casbott 1852 daughter Balsham Cam
\\
Sarah Lee married 60 Gipsy Travelling Bedfordshire
Rachel Hurn Wid. 54 Gipsy Travelling Luton Hunts (nee Lee, widow of Edward "Naibai" with her son by him -)
Samuel Hurn son 21 Tinker and Brazier Windham Nfk
\\
John Hurn Wid 50 Tinker and Brazier Holbeach, Lin (AKA Alfred)
Everhilda Hurn daughter 20 Net & Peg Mkr Petingham Yk
Jack Hurn 19 son Tinker & Brazier near Lincoln
Moses Hurn son 14 Tinker & Brazier Howden Lin
Dola Hurn dtr 13 Net & Peg Mkr Peterboro Nhts
Eldirifa Hurn dtr 10 Net & peg mkr near Huntingdon
Union Hurn dtr 8 Gloucester
Joana Hurn dtr 6 near Cambridge
Crimea Hurn 4 son Chatteris, Isle of Ely (AKA Nukes)
Is it the same Roads of May? I think it probably is..... It would make sense for her to live with Auntie Eliza after her mothers death, and her father clearly had a large family to cater for already, as is shown above.
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