Joseph Dawson Udimore 1851? Family History Local History

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Joseph Dawson Udimore 1851?

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Topic: Joseph Dawson Udimore 1851? (Read 145 times)

Piperatthegates
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Great Grandad PC Arthur Piper 1844-1886

Joseph Dawson Udimore 1851?
« on: Tuesday 08 January 08 14:26 GMT (UK) »

Hi,

Wonder if anyone can help. I am searching for a "Joseph Dawson" Born Essex C1810, in the 1851 census in the Udimore area.

He leaves Essex after the 1841 census, and is on the 1861 Census with his wifes Daughter (Eliza Wright) in Udimore, but I can't find him in 1851. However his son "Alfred Dawson" born Chelmsford Essex is lodging in Udimore (Kent?) on the 1851 so I think Joseph must have been around somewhere close.

I can only find one Udimore and that is Sussex, why does Ancestry call it Kent? was there a boundary change?

Dawson is not actually the family name so I suspect that Joseph may have been doing a runner from Essex for some reason, possible names are Piper (actual name) Dawson or Wright.

Joseph lives out his life in Sussex with his wife Sarah. His son after the 1861 census reverts back to the family name of Piper on his marriage, so did they have to produce birth certs to get married in the 1860's?

I know this is a bit of a strange one, what with the name change etc, but this could be a really good bit of detective work.


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Piper, Essex
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lizdb
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Re: Joseph Dawson Udimore 1851?
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 08 January 08 15:49 GMT (UK) »

No - they ddint have to produce birth certs

and

I have no idea why Ancestry describes loads of Sussex places as Sussex, Kent. I have seen it a lot, and found it annoying but now just ignore it!!!


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Chris in 1066Land
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Re: Joseph Dawson Udimore 1851?
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 08 January 08 15:54 GMT (UK) »

Hi

I think the answer is that the Ancestry transcription was done by people whoes first language is not English and they are not geneaologists, so they have no idea as to what they are actually transcribing or where it is !!

Chris in 1066


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Piperatthegates
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Great Grandad PC Arthur Piper 1844-1886

Re: Joseph Dawson Udimore 1851?
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 08 January 08 18:25 GMT (UK) »

Hi,

Thanks to you both for your replies.

I am not surprised Ancestry is a bit haphazard with their locations I have certainly had some amazing name translations! Grin

I wonder why Alfred called himself Alfred Dawson in the 1861 Census and yet by October of 1861 he had reverted back to his original Piper name, even though his parents remained Dawson's, I wondered if it was part of the beaurocracy of getting married but that doesnt appear to be the case.

This trail is certainly throwing me some mysteries


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Piper, Essex
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lizdb
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Re: Joseph Dawson Udimore 1851?
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 09 January 08 16:24 GMT (UK) »

So often it would be so good to actually be able to know what was going on in our ancestor's minds wouldnt it, rather than just see what appears on paper!

I guess there could ge all manner of reasons for these name change. We can only surmise, and the truth is probably some reason that we never think of.

Maybe his parents didnt like his fiance, so he married her in his 'other name' just to make a point - "I'm not really a Dawson anyway" sort of attitude.

Maybe he never knew he wasnt a Dawson really, until he thought of marrying, and then the truth came out. Perhaps he saw his birth cert for the first time then.

Maybe he actually usually used Piper all along, but on Censuses his parents had just said he was Dawson too, as it was easier. But when he was married and living independently, naturally he said Piper.

When did Joseph die? Perhaps when his Dad died and the Dawson saga ended, Alfred felt happier using Piper.

There - 4 theories, any or more probably none of which may be near the truth!


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Piperatthegates
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Great Grandad PC Arthur Piper 1844-1886

Re: Joseph Dawson Udimore 1851?
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 09 January 08 19:24 GMT (UK) »

Hi,

Thanks for posting with your ideas Lizdb, you are probably right and I will never know but this is what I have at present

Joseph and Sarah Piper living in Ramsden Bellhouse/Downham area of Essex in 1841, Joseph is a shoemaker. Sarah's maidenname Wright ,Joseph's mothers maidenname Dawson

By 1851 Sarah and nearly all the children still living in RB/D area Joseph and third eldest child Alfred missing.
Alfred Dawson aged 11 lodging in Udimore and described as a shoemaker born Chelmsford (close to RB/D) No sign of Joseph

1861 Census Alfred Dawson living in Battle, Shoemaker born Billericay Essex (even closer to RB/D)

1861 Census Joseph Dawson in Udimore with Wifes Daughter Eliza Wright (Eliza missing from Sarah Piper RB/D 1861 Census)

1861 October Alfred Dawson gets married as Alfred Piper

1871 Census Joseph and Sarah Dawson both of Chelmsford in Udimore

1881 Census Joseph and Sarah Dawson with lodger Walter Piper (one of Joseph and Sarah Piper's children!) both Walter and Sarah are born Ramsden Bellhouse!

To me there is too much circumstantial evidence that Joseph and Sarah Dawson of Udimore are Joseph and Sarah Piper of Ramsden Bellhouse. The big question is why they did what they did, and where did Joseph disappear to between the 1841 and the 1861 census'

I can but keep looking

regards
piper


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lizdb
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Re: Joseph Dawson Udimore 1851?
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 10 January 08 09:28 GMT (UK) »

I wonder if the Dawson/Piper interchange really started a generation earlier. You say Joseph's mum's maiden name was Dawson. Was he born illegitimately prior to her marriage to Piper? It could be he swapped between the two - either his mum's maiden name that he started life with, or that of his step dad Piper. MAybe he never really got on with step dad - could it be that when stepdad died they took to using Dawson more? but their children who had grown up with these two names settled with walter choosing Piper and Alfred choosing Dawson.

now as to why Joseph 'disappears', we must remember that it may not be a case of him 'disappearing' for 20 years from 1841 to 1861! the census just records things as at one night - so he could have just been away that one night! MAybe delivering a shoe order, and stayed over somewhere, they didnt mention him there as he was a fleeting visitor (although they should) and Sarah didnt mention him as she followed the instructions religiously and only declared people actually in her house on that night.

Or he could be SOMEWHERE on the census but badly written and never findable.

Again, just surmizing - who knows??

Your last sentance - "I can but keep looking" is the best!
Never give up. Look at things from as many angles as you can. Investigate Joseph Piper/Dawson and his wider family as much as you can, likewise all his children.

It may always be a mystery. Names were pretty fluid in those mid 19th century days, and I think we can make too much of it sometimes nowadays - just thinknig of my own tree there is a family of illegitimate 'Edmonds' who swap between Edmonds and Field on censuses -but there you go!

But if answers do appear - I can guarantee they will appear from the most unlikely and unexpected source!!!!!!!!

Most of all - ENJOY the hunting!!!!
All the best


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lizdb
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Re: Joseph Dawson Udimore 1851?
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 10 January 08 09:37 GMT (UK) »

Just another thought - shoemakers were often apprenticed. i wonder if young Alfred (and he was young wsnt he?) was apprenticed to the people in Udimore. If so it would be worth seeing if theRecords office has any Apprenticeship records (indenitures? is that the right word?)

Interestingly I found ALfred Piper (bn 1840 Billericay) in Sussex in 1881, as a cordwainer, so that looks like him. He has wife Agnes, several children, and a MOTHER called Lucy Mepham!
Have you checked this one out? Is it actually a m-i-law? was Agnes a Mepham?
or is Alfred Piper (mother Lucy) actually a different person Alfred DAwson (mother SArah)

Or am i just complicating things....


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lizdb
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Re: Joseph Dawson Udimore 1851?
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 10 January 08 09:40 GMT (UK) »

OK, dont worry. I checked out themarriage myself and yes, Agnes was a Mepham, so Lucy is actaully his mum-i-law.

All sorted on that one.


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