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Topic: John Smith and William Smith b. knowle. Lived Tipton/Greatbridge Staffs (Read 434 times)
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keith15
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I am researching the family of John Smith b. Knowle , Warwickshire 1815.John married Elizabeth Satchell, West Bromwich in 1840. They had four children, William and Robert were twins b. 1843 Dudley Port, Mary Ann b. 1846 Greets Green and John b. 1854 Dudley Port.
The families address was Furnace Lane in the 1851 census. I am interested to learn if this was an early name for Coneygree Road.Two of John's sons , William and Robert worked at a blast furnace which may have been the Coneygree Foundry.
The other branch of the family John's brother William Smith b. 1817 Knowle, who married a Phebe abt 1839 and who was a Greengrocer/Fishmonger at 63 High St Greatbridge,Staffs. John died abt 1870 but his wife continued in the business with her son William b. 1850 and grandchildren at least until the 1901 census.
Does anyone remember the Smiths, Frutiers/Greengrocers/Fishmongers in Great Bridge.
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willow154
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Coneygree Furnace is listed on this database
http://www.ehs.org.uk/ehs/Datasets/Assets/King05rev.xls
This database gives grid references which show where the furnace would have been in Tipton.
If you look on the descriptions of the enumeration districts I believe it says Furnace Lane is off Randles Lane (later named Victora Road).
Coneygree Road changes to Randles Lane(or Randolls Lane as it is written in John Parkes book 'HIstory of Tipton, Staffordshire').
John Parkes book was written in 1915 - see Genuki - Tipton, Staffs.
This book has lots of interesting and gives a picture of Tipton c. 1815 - with many names,etc. (There's a copy in SOG in London.)
Good luck with your research.
Hope all this helps.
Kind regards,
Willow154
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keith15
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Thank you for your help with street names around Conegre Road, Tipton. My post is quite old now and I have discovered some of the information that you have provided. You will probably know that the sports centre adjacent to the traffic lights with the Sedgley Road East bares a plaque on an outside wall which identifies the position of the Conegre Foundry.
Victoria Road, previously Randolls Lane was renamed when the Park of the same name came into being.
WKV Gale wrote a book on Conegre though many years out of print. Not looked for it at Sandwell but they may have a copy. I do have a copy of his book "The Black Country Iron Industry" though published in 1966 but this only gives a general overview of the industry.
I found my wife's gggf William Smith's twin brother Robert b. 1843 was also a Blast Furnace Manager though the location is not given in the census but he lived within a very few yards of the traffic lights Coneygre Road and Sedgeley Road East so he quite probably was at the Conegre .
best wishes
mike
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willow154
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Hi Mike,
Sent you an email, but forgot to mention that my Thamas adams (1785ish - 1859) married an Anne Smith at West Bromwich.
Glad to have been some help; though it sounds as if you're doing very well on your own.
Kind regards,
Paulene.
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keith15
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Hi Paulene,
Thank you for your reply.I will keep my eyes open for your Thomas Adams. We do have some Smiths who are unaccounted for but no Anne in the period that you are looking for. Smith can be a difficult name to follow and we drew a blank the first time around but when we looked again we were fortunate that their ages recorded in censuses etc remained the same .
There is one area that you may be able to help with your knowledge of street name changes. GGGF William Smith lived at 62 Watery Lane. There is just a short stub of this road which crossed the Birmingham Canal Navigation bridge and also the railway. His address census 1901 was 62 Queens Road. Our suspicion is that he never moved home, the new name involved houses which were previously Watery Lane . Some of the old houses still remain at what is now the junction of Victoria Road and Queens Road .
Thank you for your help
best wishes
Mike
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willow154
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Thanks again Mike.
Good luck with your own research,
Kind regards,
Paulene
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willow154
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Mike,
Do you know if Randles Lane, Tipton, on the England 1841 Census is Coneygree Road?
There's a Thomas Adams b.1761. Don't know if he's connected to Thomas at Dudley Port.
Thanks,
Paulene.
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willow154
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Mike.
Paulene again -
Just been looking at some pages I copied when I visited SOG in the autumn - form a book called A History of Tipton by John Parkes.
There's a chapter which describes Tipton a hundred years ago. (that is from when book was written in 1915; so it describes 1815).
You're right - Watery Lane became Queen's Road.
Oher roads which changed were;
Workhouse Lane - Alexandra Road
Quarry Lane - Castle Road
Randolls Lane - Victoria Road
Peartree Lane - Waterloo Street East
Stoke's Building - Wood Street
If you ge the opportunity it makes a fascinating read.
Still can't figure out whether Randles' Lane went further down than Coneygree in 1841 - would welcome your opinion, John.
Paulene.
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keith15
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Thank you for your reply and the confirmation about Watery Lane and other street name changes.
I will certainly have a look for Thomas Adams and see what comes up. There are few names mentioned in WKV Gales book that I have. It is more a general account of the industry but I will look again. I bought the book in excellent condition from the auction site Ebay. this is a good place to look for out of print publications though the one book on Conegre Foundry has eluded me . Another site is ABEBOOKS which is an online directory of second hand book dealers across the country. I have bought from them as well.
Have you found Thomas Adams in the 1841 and 1851 censuses.
best wishes and thanks
Mike
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willow154
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Hi Mike,
Good question !!
Yes, Thomas is there on the 1841 Census living at Dudley Port - where he died.
His wife is down as Nancy - perhaps because they have a daughter living at home also called Ann.
His sons William and Timothy are still at home, plus they have Daniel Pearson (down as Parson) and James Adams (may be a relative, but as yet no proof)as living with them. Daniel marries the daughter shortly after.
Thomas is down as being born 1791 - I know it is put down to the nearest 5 years, which puts him down as being born 1786 -1791. The informant may have been wrong as to his age at death or he may have been born later than 1785.
However, I've tried and tried and tried to find him on the 1851 census, but with no luck. If you can find him I'll be most grateful!
Everything about Thomas ends in a mystery, I'm afraid.
I found some information regarding a litigation case Jones v Harding (Harding was excise officer in Tipton in 1805) in 1808 . Harding was to appear before the king's bench at Westminster - I tried to get information and help from the National Archives but without success. Thomas Adams, Iron Founder, of Tipton, and William Brain, maltster of Smethwick, put up a considerable amount of money as sureity William Harding would appear in court. This may well be my Thomas but everything ends up as a brick wall!
I've spent months trying to track him down, which is not easy as I don't live near Tipton, and don't drive.
My knowlege of the streets around Dudley Port comes from studying the streets around the area on the ennumeration district descriptions. Visits to the SOG in London have helped with some parish registers, but I confess it's hard going tracking this one down.
Any help you or anyone can give on this one would be most gratefully received - it I could find out where's he's buried that might be a start. I've checked, Tipton St.Martiin, West Bromwich, All Saints (where he married), Coventry general cemetery and one or two other general cemeteries in the area. Waiting at the moment to hear about Heath Lane Cemetery at West Bromwich - so fingers crossed!
Thomas died at Dudley Port, on the 20th December, 1859 - retired blast furnace manager. The informant was Sarah Barnett - perhaps a neighbour or an associate/friend. By this time his eldest two sons had moved away to derbyshire as the furnace industry was starting to decline in and around Tipton. Edward Adams, my ancestor, moved to be manager at the Stanton Ironworks near Ilkeston. Timothy stayed in Tipton, changing trade from iron moulder (family trade) to publican of the brown Lion (later Red Lion) on Fisher Street, Tipton. There again can't find where he is buried!
If you can sort this lot out Mike you're a genius!
Anyway, back to your search - just quickly looked at the description of Tipton c. 1815 from John Parkes book - there are several Smiths mentioned, only one at Great Bridge wa Ann Smith, butcher.
kind regards,
Paulene.
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keith15
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Hi Paulene,
I found the death entry for Thomas but you already have this information. It is just an idea but parts of Dudley Port are closer to Dudley than Tipton. Dudley you may know was Worcestershire. Research around this area has previously caught me out. Another suggestion is the Wills Index which is held at many research centres but better to enquire before you travel to look. Not sure of the start date for this index but I think it will include 1859 and runs until about 1947 , the information can be most useful if a Will was registered.
There is a website "West Midlands BMD" on which I found Thomas Adams. I also found an entry for the Dec Qtr of 1859 under Dudley.
Still wonder where the family was in the 1851.
best wishes
Mike
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willow154
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Hi Mike,
Got my reply from sandwell Archives today - no trace of him at Heath Lane, West Bromwich, either.
Tried the Probate Index and Lichfield re. wills (in case there was some overlap) but no will.
Thought about a burial fo him at Dudley St.Thomas, but doubt that I can get to Staffs. so will have to wait until I can get to SOG at London to check burial register.
Sandwell suggested he might have been born at Dudley, but as the Census said born in Staffs. I hadn't checked - though the ennumerator might have got it wrong, and if he was baptised there he might have been born iin Tipton - these ancestor's made it really easy didn't they!
Checked IGI today, but no record of his birth at Dudley St.Thomas.
Really appreciate you taking the time to think this puzzle through.
Kind regards,
Paulene.
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keith15
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Hi Paulene,
Some research individuals can be most frustrating and many seem to avoid the census ennumerators. My father always said. The information is probably there but it is just knowing where to look. I wonder if you know where they married. Do you know what happened to son William. Did he marry an Elizabeth. I found one in the 1851 who was born at Bilston.
best wishes
Mike
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willow154
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Hi again Mike,
Yes, that's his son William Dudley Adams living on Bilston Road - he later followed Thomas' eldest son, Edward, up to Ilkeston, near Stanton Ironworks.
The marriage everyone seems to think is the right one for father Thomas is 23rd October 1809 - batch 7222014 - to Anne Smith. The only other is in 1808 to Hannah Siveter in Rowley Regis.
I've got a photocopy of the marriage entry for West Bromwich - it says both of this parish, though I realise it doesn't mean they were born there.
Thanks again,
Paulene.
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keith15
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Hi Paulene,
Thanks for the further info. If I discover anything I will let you know.
best wishes
Mike
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