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Author Topic: help identifying uniform in photo  (Read 611 times)
vito321
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help identifying uniform in photo
« on: Friday 11 January 08 21:43 UTC (UK) »

this is a photo found in grandfathers collection trying to identify uniform and a date if possible appears to have been taken in dublin?
Thanks for any information that migh help identify it.
have posted back and front of photo.

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o'neill lurgan 1850's belfast1890-
semple/simple/sample lurgan 1850's
o'brien/o'brian magherafelt 1830's belfast 1850's-
hamill belfast/dunmurray/legmore 1890-
vito321
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Re: help identifying uniform in photo
« Reply #1 on: Friday 11 January 08 21:44 UTC (UK) »

here is photo


* front1.1.jpg (178.32 KB, 650x1054 - viewed 214 times.)

* back1.1.jpg (165.75 KB, 831x1386 - viewed 212 times.)
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o'neill lurgan 1850's belfast1890-
semple/simple/sample lurgan 1850's
o'brien/o'brian magherafelt 1830's belfast 1850's-
hamill belfast/dunmurray/legmore 1890-
PrueM
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Re: help identifying uniform in photo
« Reply #2 on: Friday 11 January 08 22:08 UTC (UK) »

Hi vito  Smiley

I can't help with the uniform, but I can tell you that the card back is a standard design used by a lot of photographers - it's by Spicer Bros, London. This is an 1884 design but mostly used about 1888, and the last one I have seen dates from 1892 (from Roger Vaughan's website http://www.cartes.freeuk.com/time/back85.htm )
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vito321
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Re: help identifying uniform in photo
« Reply #3 on: Friday 11 January 08 22:47 UTC (UK) »

thanks that helps home in on a date. Grin
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o'neill lurgan 1850's belfast1890-
semple/simple/sample lurgan 1850's
o'brien/o'brian magherafelt 1830's belfast 1850's-
hamill belfast/dunmurray/legmore 1890-
km1971
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Re: help identifying uniform in photo
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 12 January 08 05:04 UTC (UK) »

Nice photograph. The only discernable thing is that the name of the regiment is quite long judging by the shoulder title. If you have a scanner that has pre-scan you could try copying just his right collar badge at the highest resolution setting. Keeping it as colour will add depth to the scan. If your scanner doesn't have pre-scan you could do the whole thing at a high setting, then 'cut' the collar badge using something like Paint, then 'paste' it into a new file.

The picture 'looks' end of the 1800s/early 1890s. If you can get to Kew you can look for his papers - http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/militaryhistory/army/step4.htm. These are in alphabetical order so you can search for a short list of surnames. Each search should only take about 20 minutes, as long as it is not a very common name.

Ken
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vito321
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Re: help identifying uniform in photo
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 13 January 08 21:43 UTC (UK) »

Did try the scan at high detail but quality not much better I thought the collar badge might have been a royal irish rifles badge? anybody think it is or if rest of uniform is typical of a royal irish rofles uniform in 1890ish.

Thanks


* royal-irbadge.jpg (10.57 KB, 169x255 - viewed 165 times.)
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o'neill lurgan 1850's belfast1890-
semple/simple/sample lurgan 1850's
o'brien/o'brian magherafelt 1830's belfast 1850's-
hamill belfast/dunmurray/legmore 1890-
Old Warrior
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Re: help identifying uniform in photo
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 27 January 08 10:54 UTC (UK) »

Hi everyone,

This is my first post here so I'd better make a wish !

The photograph was taken in Inchicore Dublin?

The mearest Barracks to Inchicore would have ben Islandbridge Barracks later known as Clancy Barracks and now being redeveloped having been sold by the DoD to a property developer in the last year or so. From defence.ie:

CLANCY BARRACKS
Clancy Barracks, formerly known as Islandbridge Barracks, dates from about 1857. It is sited on the south bank of the river Liffey and close to one of the most westerly of Dublin city's bridges, Islandbridge, formerly known as Sarah Bridge. The barracks has had a long association with artillery, cavalry, and ordnance.
 The barracks was taken over by the Irish Army on the 15th December 1922 when a rifle company commanded by Captain Condon was sent to take over Islandbridge Barracks. In that Company was Captain Robert Fitzgerald who was the first Officer Commanding.
 It was renamed Clancy Barracks in 1942 after Peader Clancy, a County Clare man killed during the War of Independence in 1920.
 The barracks has been associated with various military events including the Crimean War, the Boer War, World War 1, and the 1916 rising.

As far as I know, the Queens Dragoon Guards were based there around 1870, but regiments in those days would have changed around in Irish Barracks every few years. There is a picture of an Adjutants Parade at the Barracks at http://www.qdg.org.uk/shop/qdg.php/products_id/664?osCsid=1c23fff685a4197800b37f799c6525f0 .

Hope this helps !
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Military History - British Forces in Ireland and Irish Military History
neil1821
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Re: help identifying uniform in photo
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 27 January 08 11:24 UTC (UK) »

I don't think the photo shows the uniform of the Royal Irish Rifles or any other specifically Irish regiment I'm afraid, based on facing colours.  Undecided
In the photo, the collar is a light colour (probably white? but maybe yellow, buff or something else light).

However, the facing colours of Irish regiments at the time:
Royal Irish Regiment - dark blue
Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers - dark blue
Royal Irish Rifles - dark green (rifle green?)
Royal Irish Fusiliers - dark blue
Connaught Rangers - green
Leinster Regiment - blue
Royal Munster Fusiliers - dark blue
Royal Dublin Fusiliers - green

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scrimnet
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Re: help identifying uniform in photo
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 27 January 08 20:56 UTC (UK) »

I was going to say that just because the barracks are in Dublin (perhaps...just where the photographer was based....perhaps he was peripatetic!) don't suppose that the parent regt is an Irish one....

Horseshoe shoulder titles were quite common prior to 1902, here is a close up of one of mine...



Also, the Northamptons (both battalions) were in Ireland at the right time , and the facings are the right colour!!!
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vito321
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Re: help identifying uniform in photo
« Reply #9 on: Sunday 27 January 08 21:35 UTC (UK) »

I don't think the photo shows the uniform of the Royal Irish Rifles or any other specifically Irish regiment I'm afraid, based on facing colours.  Undecided
In the photo, the collar is a light colour (probably white? but maybe yellow, buff or something else light).

However, the facing colours of Irish regiments at the time:
Royal Irish Regiment - dark blue
Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers - dark blue
Royal Irish Rifles - dark green (rifle green?)
Royal Irish Fusiliers - dark blue
Connaught Rangers - green
Leinster Regiment - blue
Royal Munster Fusiliers - dark blue
Royal Dublin Fusiliers - green



Were these the colours in 1880's

vito
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o'neill lurgan 1850's belfast1890-
semple/simple/sample lurgan 1850's
o'brien/o'brian magherafelt 1830's belfast 1850's-
hamill belfast/dunmurray/legmore 1890-
vito321
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Re: help identifying uniform in photo
« Reply #10 on: Sunday 27 January 08 21:48 UTC (UK) »

Why do you think this is not an irish regiment???

My relatives arounf the 1880's (assuming this is a photo of one of them) would have been based in lurgan Co armagh  or Belfast more likely Belfast).

I also think that the lapel badge looks a bit harp shaped.  but hard to tell.

vito
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o'neill lurgan 1850's belfast1890-
semple/simple/sample lurgan 1850's
o'brien/o'brian magherafelt 1830's belfast 1850's-
hamill belfast/dunmurray/legmore 1890-
vito321
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Re: help identifying uniform in photo
« Reply #11 on: Sunday 27 January 08 21:57 UTC (UK) »

maybe this inverted image is easier to identify shape of lapel badge?


* inverted.JPG (61.25 KB, 650x1054 - viewed 112 times.)
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o'neill lurgan 1850's belfast1890-
semple/simple/sample lurgan 1850's
o'brien/o'brian magherafelt 1830's belfast 1850's-
hamill belfast/dunmurray/legmore 1890-
neil1821
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Re: help identifying uniform in photo
« Reply #12 on: Sunday 27 January 08 22:03 UTC (UK) »

Hi Vito,
Those are the facing colours in the whole of the era you're interested in.
http://uk.geocities.com/neil182@btinternet.com/facingcolours.htm

I agree with scrimnet, it's just as likely to be the uniform of an English regiment that happened to be in Ireland at the time (as of course many were).

I can't see enough of the lapel badge to recognise much at all sadly.
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Re: help identifying uniform in photo
« Reply #13 on: Sunday 27 January 08 22:11 UTC (UK) »

Many regts had white/ buff facings at the time....



Many men joined the regt that was there at the time...I actually saw a jug  in an antique shop yesterday commemorating a chap born in Wexford, but he had joined the 58th Regt...2nd Northamptons.

Also as  Neil has pointed out, the facings don't actually match any Irish regts...
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One more charge and then be dumb,
            When the forts of Folly fall,
        May the victors when they come
            Find my body near the wall.
vito321
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Posts: 124


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Re: help identifying uniform in photo
« Reply #14 on: Sunday 27 January 08 22:22 UTC (UK) »

This is becoming more of a mystery than I imagined.  Huh Huh Huh Huh

vito
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o'neill lurgan 1850's belfast1890-
semple/simple/sample lurgan 1850's
o'brien/o'brian magherafelt 1830's belfast 1850's-
hamill belfast/dunmurray/legmore 1890-
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