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Topic: Looking for Maria Brown (born 1850s?) (Read 468 times)
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Aulus
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The black sheep: Florence Stevenson née Hampson
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For the background, see this thread on the London forum: http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,304704.0.html
I thought I'd bring this over here, in case anyone with particular Kent knowledge/resources can help. Obviously it's her early life in Kent that I'm hoping someone here may be able to help with.
According to which census and/or marriage certificate you read, Maria Brown was born c. 1849 in Kent (1871 census RG10/758, fol. 67, p. 27), c. 1851 (marriage to William Denny Ruck), c. 1854 (marriage to James Richard Page) or c. 1859 in London (1891 census RG12/352, fol. 6, p. 5)
One one marriage certificate, her father is Stephen William Brown, on the other two, just William Brown. He was a builder or, as she calls him once, an architect. He is dead before 30 Apr 1882.
Maria seems to have a sister Matilda, born c. 1856 in Kent according to the 1871 census (RG10/758, fol. 67, p. 27). A witness to her marriage 30 Apr 1882 to Frederick William Guest was Clara Brown: another sister?
I can't find her on the 1851 census, though she may not have been born at that point.
I can't find her on the 1861 census, and I think it's the 1861 census that would really help understand her the most. Grr...
On the 1871 census, Maria is on the census (6 Matilda Place, Greenwich, RG10/758, fol. 67, p. 27)
2 April 1872 she marries William Denny RUCK at the Lion Chapel in Margate, Kent (witnessed by Job Gore & Elizabeth Clements, whoever they are). She is living at 7 Marine Terrace, Margate.
Can't find her on the 1881 census and she next appears in 1882, having now left Kent.
On 30 April 1882 she marries Frederick William GUEST at the Parish Church of St. George the Martyr in Southwark (witnessed by William Glemaw(?) Crop (?) and Clara Brown.). The marriage certificate doesn't give an address, just says Southwark.
Her next appearance is on the 1891 census, when she's at 261 Borough High Street in London (RG12/352, fol. 6, p. 5)
On 29 January 1892 she was the witness and then informant of her husband, Frederick William Guest's death. They were living at 12 Great Dover Street, London.
On 15th September 1891 she marries James Richard Page at Islington Register Office. She was resident at 1B Charlton Place, Islington.
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Lancashire: Stevenson, Wild, Holden, Jepson Worcs/Staffs: Steventon, Smith East London & Suffolk: Guest, Scrutton East London: Palfreman (prev Tyneside), Bissell, Collis, Dearlove, Ettridge Herts: Camac, Collis, Mason, Dorrington, Siggens Marylebone & Sussex: Cole London & Huntingdonshire: Freeman Bowland: Marsden, Noble Shropshire: Guest Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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PaulineJ
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Find me in the Yellow Pages.
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1871. Best candidate for Job is at RG10/992; F/97; P/25. Margate, Kent
He's a builder and they are all b Margate.
Job Gore 34
Harriet Gore 35
Frank Gore 9
James Gore 7
Eliza Gore 5
Arthur Gore 3
Eliza E Parker 16 Servant.
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All census look up transcriptions are Crown Copyright ====================================== Brown 1800 Dover -> Woolwich (Kent) Barnett 1800 Isleworth -> Woolwich Pannifer 1830 Suffolk -> Deptford Kent Brierley in Staffordshire(Pre-1875) Walters in Middlesex(Pre-1875) Clift,Gould in Devon/Cornwall http://www.freecycle.org/display.php?region=United%20Kingdom |
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casalguidi
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Job GORE married Harriett BROWN
The nearest Harriett BROWN I can see in 1851 and 1841 is (just in case there is a connection):
1851 - 2 Northumberland Terrace, Margate
Thomas GORE head mar 26 joiner jouneyman b.Margate
Sarah wife 26 b.Margate
Sarah dau 1 b.Margate
Harriett BROWN wife's sister 14 b.Margate
Ann GOODCHILD visitor unm 34 dressmaker b.Deal
HO107/1629 folio 392 page 7
......................
1841 Saint John's Place, Margate
William BROWN 40 livery stable keeper b.Kent
Margaret 40 b.Kent
Sarah 15 b.Kent
William 11 b.Kent
Caroline 9 b.Kent
Mary 7 b.Kent
Harriet 5 b.Kent
Eliza 3 b.Kent
Hannah 2m b.Kent
Emma 14 b.Kent
HO107/468 folio 63 page 20
........................
1851 13 St John's Place, Margate
William BROWN head mar 52 liver stable keeper b.Herne Hill Kent
Margaret wife 52 shopkeeper b.Margate
William son 21 ostler b.Margate
Mary A dau 17 b.Margate
Hannah dau 9 b.Margate
Emma visitor 6 b.Sturry
Percival FOORD visitor 2 b.Margate
HO107/1629 folio 275 page 13
.......................
1861 - 13 St John's Place, Margate
William BROWN head mar 62 stable keeper b.Boughton
Margaret wife 62 b.Margate
Edward W BROWN grandson 13 b.St Lawrence
Thomas KATHCOAT? lodger mar 45 retired lace manufacturer b.Loughborough Leicestershire
John F N son 6 b.Islington Middlesex
RG9/535 folio 114 page 24 and the following page
Casalguidi
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Aulus
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 866
The black sheep: Florence Stevenson née Hampson
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Thanks very much Pauline and Casalguidi.
I think there must be a link to my elusive Maria - apart from the possible links you've found, Harriet's birth (23 Jan 1836) and baptism (20 March 1836) is on the IGI (Batch C068021), with the baptism at "Lady Huntingdons, Ashford, Kent, England"
The marriage of Maria Brown to William Denny Ruck at the Lion Chapel, Margate was conducted "according to the Rites and Ceremonies of the Countess of Huntingdon Connexion"
Oh, no, hang on.  That baptism has father William Brown, mother Sarah. That doesn't fit the census records that casaguidi has found. Though of course the wife Margaret in the censuses could be a second wife.
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Lancashire: Stevenson, Wild, Holden, Jepson Worcs/Staffs: Steventon, Smith East London & Suffolk: Guest, Scrutton East London: Palfreman (prev Tyneside), Bissell, Collis, Dearlove, Ettridge Herts: Camac, Collis, Mason, Dorrington, Siggens Marylebone & Sussex: Cole London & Huntingdonshire: Freeman Bowland: Marsden, Noble Shropshire: Guest Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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casalguidi
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Hi Aulus
If you do a parent search with the IGI ie. just enter parents names and district (Kent) you will find a number of children for William & Margaret baptised in the parish church of St John Thanet (Margate). I can't see any connection with these BROWNs in Margate as yet though 
There is a divorce for a James Richard PAGE with wife Maria in 1895
http://www.rootschat.com/links/03gw/ - could that be them? James Richard PAGE (age 78) is still in Hackney 1901 (no wife present on the latter date but difficult to say whether it says mar or wid - it has been overwritten).
I have found a couple of references for a Stephen William BROWN, builder, which may or not be the family you are looking for - I will post just in case they are needed later or provide any clues:
London Gazette (bankruptcy notices etc.) http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/home.aspx?geotype=London
1 Aug 1854 (before the judge of the county court of Kent at the New Sessions House, Dover 18 Aug 1854) - Stephen William BROWN generally known by the name of William BROWN formerly of Grove Cottage, Globe Road, Mile End then of no.s 3 & 21 Charterhouse St, City then of 9 Old Road, Stepney the of 1 Old Road aforesaid then of 5 Tomlin's Terrace, Salmon's Lane, Limehouse then of 10 Canal Rd, Mile End then of 3 Regent's Road, Rhodeswell Stepney and lastly of 4 Regent's Road, Rhodeswell, Stepney, bricklayer & builder (he was in the gaol in Dover).
This could be the same man (18 May 1847) - Stephen William BROWN formerly of Old Street Road then of 4 Sebright Place, Hackney Road, Middlesex then of Wrotham Road, Gravesend (Kent) then having lodgings at 4 Clarence Row, Gravesend then of 194 Parrock St, Gravesend then of 12 Primrose Terrace, Gravesend then of 5 Windmill Terrace, Gravesend - mason, builder and dealer in houses lastly of 13 Primrose Hill, Gravesend - builder. (7 May 1847 in the debtor's prison, Middlesex)
1851 - Charterhouse St, St Sepulchre, Middlesex
Stephen BROWN head mar 41 builder b.Kent
Amelia wife 29 b.Middlesex
Jane dau 10 b.Middlesex
Esther dau 6 b.Kent
Martha dau 3 b.Middlesex
William son 17m b.Kent
HO107/1526 folio 144 page 25
The following is the nearest match I could see in 1841
1841 39 Wt St, St Giles Cripplegate
William BROWN 28 not born in Middlesex
Amelia 20 b.Middlesex
Jane 1 b.Middlesex
HO107/727 folio 11 page 16
I can't see them in 1861 (perhaps not surprising the way they moved house) but this could be them in 1871:
1871
12 St Thomas Rd, Camberwell, Surrey
William POLLINGER head mar 24 stonemason b.Hanham Gloucestershire
Esther wife 25 b.Gravesend Kent
Amelia dau 3 b.Pimlico
/
Amelia BROWN head wid 48 machinist b.St Luke Middesex
Sophia dau 17 b.Stepney
Arthur son 11 b.Clerkenwell
Clara dau 8 b.South Lambeth
RG10/736 folio 35 page 6
William POLLINGER married Esther BROWN 1867 Newington registration district http://freebmd.rootsweb.com
Casalguidi
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Aulus
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 866
The black sheep: Florence Stevenson née Hampson
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Oo, thanks very much casalguidi. Some interesting stuff there. Going to take me a while to get my head round all that and follow up all the leads.
I like the look of Stephen William Brown usually known as William Brown, as that clearly fits the certificates I've got.
That divorce looks highly likely too. Gosh, a divorce in 1895!! He must have been a naughty boy to go to all that bother!
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Lancashire: Stevenson, Wild, Holden, Jepson Worcs/Staffs: Steventon, Smith East London & Suffolk: Guest, Scrutton East London: Palfreman (prev Tyneside), Bissell, Collis, Dearlove, Ettridge Herts: Camac, Collis, Mason, Dorrington, Siggens Marylebone & Sussex: Cole London & Huntingdonshire: Freeman Bowland: Marsden, Noble Shropshire: Guest Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Aulus
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Posts: 866
The black sheep: Florence Stevenson née Hampson
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James Richard PAGE (age 78) is still in Hackney 1901 (no wife present on the latter date but difficult to say whether it says mar or wid - it has been overwritten).
I think it must say wid, as the enumerator just writes m for married.
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Lancashire: Stevenson, Wild, Holden, Jepson Worcs/Staffs: Steventon, Smith East London & Suffolk: Guest, Scrutton East London: Palfreman (prev Tyneside), Bissell, Collis, Dearlove, Ettridge Herts: Camac, Collis, Mason, Dorrington, Siggens Marylebone & Sussex: Cole London & Huntingdonshire: Freeman Bowland: Marsden, Noble Shropshire: Guest Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Aulus
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Posts: 866
The black sheep: Florence Stevenson née Hampson
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I've not noticed the National Archives Digital Express service before - £8.50 for a jpeg image of the document(s), available within 24 hours. Seems a great idea - presumably they send someone along to the shelf and take a digital photo of the document.
I'm not sure my bank manager would agree, but it seemed worth a punt for that divorce - I'll let you know the results.
I've no idea what it might contain, though if it mentions her age, I'd hope she was less likely to fib about her age at least before a court!
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Lancashire: Stevenson, Wild, Holden, Jepson Worcs/Staffs: Steventon, Smith East London & Suffolk: Guest, Scrutton East London: Palfreman (prev Tyneside), Bissell, Collis, Dearlove, Ettridge Herts: Camac, Collis, Mason, Dorrington, Siggens Marylebone & Sussex: Cole London & Huntingdonshire: Freeman Bowland: Marsden, Noble Shropshire: Guest Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Aulus
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Posts: 866
The black sheep: Florence Stevenson née Hampson
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Well, what an excellent service the National Archives' Digital Express Service is.
Really high quality jpegs of the document. Unfortunately, it's £8.50 for the first 10 pages, and the email from them said there are another six pages, so I've not got the full thing.
Fascinating stuff it is. But it doesn't seem to be a divorce, but rather a petition from Maria that James let her live with him again. I've not got the outcome other than that the very first image is the "Court Minutes" cover sheet to her petition, and it says the petition was dismissed on 20th May 1895.
blah blah blah legalese
1. that on the 15th day of September 1892 your Petitioner then Maria Guest Widow was lawfully married to the said James Richard Page blah blah blah
2. that after the said marriage your petitioner lived and cohabited with the said James Richard Page at 126 Southgate Road Hackney and at divers other places but there has been no issue of the said marriage.
3. That on or about the month of August 1893 the said James Richard Page left your petitioner and has refused and still refuses to return to your petitioner or to allow her to return to him or to render her conjugal rights
Wherefore your Petitioner prays that your Lordship will order the said James Richard Page to return to your Petitioner and receive her and render to her conjugal rights.
Maria Page (signed)
Then there's lots more blah blah blah  from which I spotted the following
- Her solicitor was George Ernest Moger of 90 Southampton Row, Holborn (included just in case somebody's searching rootschat for him!
- James Richard Page "has resided for many years and still resides at 126 Southgate Road, Hackney and carries on an old established business of a medical and general label printer" I noticed that he's at that address on the censuses from 1881 onwards (and only just round the corner in 1861 and 1871)
- While he always resided at 126 Southgate Road, as a couple they "cohabited together at various places in London".
- He was paying her an allowance of some sort as she says she is "quite unable to live upon the present allowance you make me"
- James Richard Page swears that he was never married to Maria and they never lived together. Oo! I'm waving the certificate of their marriage at the screen!
 The bounder! - On 5 Oct 1893 Maria "entered into and executed a deed of separation and forthwith acted in pursuance thereof and the Respondent has duly kept and performed all the covenants on his part therein contained"
- one of the covenants in the Deed of Separation was that Maria would not bring any action or proceedings against James Richard, and so he claims she has broken that covenant by this action
- another covenant was that Maria would not "molest or cause to be molested or disturbed the respondent in his residence or elsewhere or apply for separate or other allowance for maintenance, so he says she has broken that covenant as well.
Now it gets interesting ...- "The Petitioner [i.e. Maria] has committed gross impropriety of conduct and has offered to confess misconduct and has manifested a violent and uncontrollable temper and given way to drunken habits and violent behaviour and has struck at threatened the respondent and refused to live with him and his family and made false and scandalous statements against him and his daughters." Go on then, tell us more
 - Maria denies all that, except that there was a deed of separation and that "the execution of the said Deed by the Petitioner was obtained by the fraud of the Respondent and of his solicitor Daniel Medcalf; that the Petitioner was induced to execute the said Deed by Duress on the part of the respondent and his solicitor, Daniel Medcalf"
- Maria claims "At the time of the execution of the said deed [she] was very ill and worried and was confined to her bed. She was also much pressed for money owing to the Respondent having deserted her and left her without means and she was coerced into signing the said Deed by the threats of the Respondent and his said Solicitor not to per a penny until she did so, and that she signed the said Deed in order to obtain money for her support. In consequence of her said illness she was unable to read the said Deed and it was not read over to her and she was not aware of its contents or effect.
and that's all the first ten pages contain!
Why, oh why couldn't any of those closer to my direct line have got into this sort of thing and left such a wonderful trail?
Can I bear not to read the last eight pages? I know the outcome from the very first page, but ... ooo, it's tempting.
Unfortunately she doesn't mention her age.
Doesn't really help at all, but it is jolly interesting.
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Lancashire: Stevenson, Wild, Holden, Jepson Worcs/Staffs: Steventon, Smith East London & Suffolk: Guest, Scrutton East London: Palfreman (prev Tyneside), Bissell, Collis, Dearlove, Ettridge Herts: Camac, Collis, Mason, Dorrington, Siggens Marylebone & Sussex: Cole London & Huntingdonshire: Freeman Bowland: Marsden, Noble Shropshire: Guest Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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jorose
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Another reference to this family:
Reynolds's Newspaper (London, England), Sunday, July 22, 1894; Issue 2293.
Gives some idea of her age, as it says Mr Page's eldest daughter was 37 and a little younger than Maria.
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 Page.png (58.79 KB, 254x583 - viewed 55 times.)
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Aulus
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The black sheep: Florence Stevenson née Hampson
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Brilliant find jorose!
How interesting to see the link between Mr Page and her previous husband (my Frederick William Guest) as well.
And to think, we complain about drug- and alcohol-related anti-social behaviour these days!
You really feel the bare bones are being fleshed out here.
Was she a suffering a mental illness, or is it just the effect of demon drink? Is it the fact that she saw off so many husbands that drove her to drink? What did all her husbands see in her? We'll never know, of course.
I love the little bit of unnecessary detail that he had provided her with a piano and an organ.
Actually, James is getting a bit past it obviously, as he's forgotten that his eldest daughter was more like 36. There was one daughter, Ada, born c. 1857 who would have been 37 in 1894, so maybe he's just counting ones left at home with him and not yet married off.
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Lancashire: Stevenson, Wild, Holden, Jepson Worcs/Staffs: Steventon, Smith East London & Suffolk: Guest, Scrutton East London: Palfreman (prev Tyneside), Bissell, Collis, Dearlove, Ettridge Herts: Camac, Collis, Mason, Dorrington, Siggens Marylebone & Sussex: Cole London & Huntingdonshire: Freeman Bowland: Marsden, Noble Shropshire: Guest Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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