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Author
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Topic: Barnsley of Penrith Cumberland (Read 382 times)
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Jason46
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 161
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I have a relative who is proving elusive. George Barnsley who is my Great great Grandfather, married Anne Gates at St Andrews Penrith on 27 Mar 1847 I believe he was born about 1823 (ch 7 may 1823, at St Andrew's Penrith), to Thomas Barnsley and Ann (no maiden name given), and no further information on the IGI. There is a Thomas Barnsley born about 1791 of Sandgate Penrith who may be Georges father, but I have no further information
Could some one please check the registers for Penrith Cumberland for further information on a Thomas Barnsley around this period, or for any brothers or sister's for George.
Any assistance would be greatly appreciated
Jason46
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Carpenter - Devon and Australia
Flett - Orkneys
Morrell - Antrim, France, Switzerland and Ballarat
Norse and Swedish Royal families to 1000AD
Rowan - Ireland and Gloucester
Poyntz/Pons - Gloucester, France
Wilcher - Bermondsey and Birmingham
Roberts - Liverpool
Price - Monmouthshire
Smith - Orkneys
Barnsley - Cumberland
Discombe - Devon
Brewer - Devon
Torrington - Devon
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sillgen
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Posts: 5265
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Hi
Is George the one who is a shoemaker's apprentice age 15 in 1841? HO107/4/1 F14 p25 Penrith (Remember ages above 15 were rounded down in 1841)
Presumably the marriage certificate will confirm his father's name and occupation so that might help. Do you have it?
What was his occupation in later census records?
Andrea
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sillgen
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Hi Jason
My Rowans are Irish but from County Cavan and they went across to Jarrow in the mid 1800s.
All census records can be accessed on a couple of paying sites. www.ancestry.co.uk is one They often offer free trials so it might be worth trying that to see if it is worth your while. They also have the full BMD index. If you look at the beginners board it should have links to various useful sites you can use, paying and free. The marriage to Ann Gates is registered in West Derby, Lancashire (part of Liverpool) in the January quarter of 1847 ref 20 698 which seems very odd if you have it in Penrith. Are you sure it is the right one? If it is then I really think it would be a good thing to get the certificate as it will confirm the father's name for both parties. You do need to bear in mind that the IGI is not full coverage by any means and any record submitted by an LDS church member must be treated with caution until you have checked the original source. The Marriage to Anne Gates is on the IGI in "Liverpool" not Penrith but that is confirmed by the BMD index.
How do you know George was born in Penrith? I could not find him in later census with Ann. What children did they have? If you can give me reference for a later census year that would help.
Andrea
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Jason46
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 161
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Andrea
Thanks for the advice and i will look at the beginners board and go from there.George Barnsley was christened in Penrith 7 May 1823, and married Anne Gates, 27 Mar 1847 in West Derby, Liverpool, and he, his wife, 2 sons, Thomas and John, and his wife's parents, John Gates and Anne (nee Scott) went to Victoria, Australia aboard the Donald McKay in 1852. The two grandparents had died by 1854, George died on the gold fields in 1858 and his wife was murdered in 1863. They also had a daughter born at sea and another daughter, my great grandmother born in 1855. I still don't know who brought her up and the other children. Welcome to Australia!
So George may appear on the 1841 census, but not on the 1851. If you see anything, let me know. I appreciate the interest you have shown
Jason
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Logged
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Carpenter - Devon and Australia
Flett - Orkneys
Morrell - Antrim, France, Switzerland and Ballarat
Norse and Swedish Royal families to 1000AD
Rowan - Ireland and Gloucester
Poyntz/Pons - Gloucester, France
Wilcher - Bermondsey and Birmingham
Roberts - Liverpool
Price - Monmouthshire
Smith - Orkneys
Barnsley - Cumberland
Discombe - Devon
Brewer - Devon
Torrington - Devon
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sillgen
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Posts: 5265
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Hi
If he sailed in 1852 he should be on the 1851 with his wife. I will have a look later. You do not explain how you know he was born in Penrith. Is that from family knowledge? It is a common name and I was concerned that you just picked an appropriate baptism from the IGI without realising that Penrith is some distance from Liverpool. If you are sure of that fact then so be it.
Andrea
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sillgen
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Have just sent you a personal message with the 1851 for George and Anne and births for Thomas Scott, John Gates and Mary Ann Scott Barnsley.
Andrea
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sillgen
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Glad you think these are the right ones and as I said in my PM once you have the marriage certificate confirming the name of George's father I will look at the Penrith register when I am in that area after Easter - unless someone more local can do it for you before then.
Andrea
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sillgen
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Have you got the marriage certificate for George yet? Witnesses might be afmily members and give you other names to look for. Sandgates is an area of Penrith.
Andrea
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Jason46
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 161
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Yo Andrea
George, son of Ann Barnsley of Sandgate, Penrith, single woman, was baptised at St Andrew's Church, Penrith on 7 May, 1823.
No further information
Jason
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Logged
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Carpenter - Devon and Australia
Flett - Orkneys
Morrell - Antrim, France, Switzerland and Ballarat
Norse and Swedish Royal families to 1000AD
Rowan - Ireland and Gloucester
Poyntz/Pons - Gloucester, France
Wilcher - Bermondsey and Birmingham
Roberts - Liverpool
Price - Monmouthshire
Smith - Orkneys
Barnsley - Cumberland
Discombe - Devon
Brewer - Devon
Torrington - Devon
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sillgen
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Posts: 5265
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Ah! It might be worth seeing if there was a bastardy bond issued. The parish did try to get money out of the father if they could. The record office should be able to tell you if any exist for that time.
Andrea
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Jason46
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 161
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Andrea,
Tom Robson, the Senior Archivist wrote and told me that he checked out the bastardy bond compiled from the entries and found no reference to an Ann Barnsley. He did however find reference to an Elizabeth Barnsley, also of Penrith, who appeared before the magistrates at the Easter Sessions of 1822, with a petition of maintenance from one John Harrison, a skinner of Penrith. I found nothing in the IGI for 1822, but that doesn't mean anything, and I doubt if there was any relevance to Ann, as her son was born after 1822. Maybe there is a relationship between the two women, but how would that help?
Jason
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Logged
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Carpenter - Devon and Australia
Flett - Orkneys
Morrell - Antrim, France, Switzerland and Ballarat
Norse and Swedish Royal families to 1000AD
Rowan - Ireland and Gloucester
Poyntz/Pons - Gloucester, France
Wilcher - Bermondsey and Birmingham
Roberts - Liverpool
Price - Monmouthshire
Smith - Orkneys
Barnsley - Cumberland
Discombe - Devon
Brewer - Devon
Torrington - Devon
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