Valda
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Avril
Since the Scotts with brother Charles were still in Lambeth on the 1891 census the child William Charles could be a potential for one of Susan's many children who died young - as he fits between the first two births.
Births Dec 1890
Goold Frederick Marshall Kensington 1a 127
Births Mar 1892
Goold William Charles Lambeth 1d 353
Deaths Sep 1892
Goold William Charles 0 St. Geo. H. Sq. 1a 265
Births Dec 1893
Goold Frank Monday Lambeth 1d 320b
What happened to Frederick juniors two known Goold/Marshall brothers Frank Monday Goold and Ernest Goold? Did they continue on as Goolds or Marshalls?
Did Ernest die young?
Deaths Jun 1902
Goold Ernest Henry F 1 Marylebone 1a 341
and if so where is the birth registration for the Ernest aged only 14 days on the 1901 census (census night 31st March, plus parents have up to 6 weeks to register the birth)?
The only corresponding birth I can find for a Ernest Henry F (though birth names can of course occur in a different order) is
Births Jun 1901
WILLAN Ernest Henry F Marylebone 1a 506
but I can't see a Goold birth registration. So by then was the family registering their births as Marshall?
Births Jun 1901
MARSHALL Ernest Paddington 1a 20
Paddington being the address of the family on the 1901 census. If so any subsequent children between Frank and Ernest's birth registrations registered as Marshall and dying young would be much harder to spot if they didn't have 'significant' middle names.
Regards
Valda
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Perro
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Ernest died soon after the census and Frank used Goold all his life his daughter new my grandfather well and did not know why he called himself Marshall. The only story recalled was that Fred Marshall Goold worked in a Jewelery shop mending watches when his mother came in drunk and he was so ashamed he joined the Royal Navy as we know in 1909 age 19. But as Rose was born that year and a new man in the house could have been the cause too.
So as far as I can tell there was one brother Frank who survived and a sister Rose Marshall b 1909. any other children did not survive infancy.
Frank's family are still using Goold and I hope to meet one this month from Australia. I was wondering if Susan June Coote could of married a Marshall before 1890 and its the only pausable explanation I can think of at the moment.
Thank you for your help its been very much appreciated, Kind regards Avril
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Valda
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If Susan married a Marshall before why did Frederick change his name to Marshall? It would be much easier for Susan to live with Frederick, as his wife, and change her surname to his. That's what women do and did. Much more noticeable if men, who went out in the world to work etc suddenly chose to change their surname and appear as the second Mr Marshall. Susan could easily 'hide' herself in another 'alias' simply by taking a man's surname and living with him. If she was legally married to another man then you might expect her children to be registered in the surname Marshall not Goold and in the family's everyday life be known as Goold not Marshall. While anything is possible I wouldn't say this is necessarily the most 'plausible' possibility. There is no evidence that Susan left the area but there is that Frederick did which would make it easier for him to comeback using another surname. There are lots of reasons why men use aliases and not just because of criminal reasons. Marriage and remarriage is one, though again if bigamy was involved you would have expected to have found at least one marriage (as is the case for Susan). Joining the military and deserting is another. If Frederick left Susan (or the other way around) if the alias was cause by Susan you would expect Frederick to revert to his own surname and Susan might continue on as Marshall (from her death registration it would appear she continued on as Daly). I'm presuming you have searched the GRO index looking for the death registration for a Frederick (M) Goold of the right age and not found one?
A possible death registration for Frederick (the M could of course stand for anything)
Deaths Jun 1917
MARSHALL Frederick M 58 Paddington 1a 94
or this could be Frederick Miles Marshall who was in Paddington in 1901. He is the only Frederick M (any name beginning with M) Marshall born in England and Wales within 2 years either side of an 1859 birth year, so any others found of the right age might be worth looking at further.
Regards
Valda
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Perro
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Many thanks for your advice once again, the following death you have found is perhaps my Gt grandfather Frederick Monday Goold. born in 1859 .....Deaths Jun 1917
MARSHALL Frederick M 58 Paddington 1a 94 I am assuming the 58 is his age and it works out a correct age at death.
So another mystery and this is perhaps why we can find no marriage for either of them. Nor indeed that of either Susan & John Bernard Daly. Quite a mystery it all is, all grandfather would say when his wife said Fred Marshall will you do this or that would calmly answer my name is not Fred Marshall and she never knew until his death when she was so shocked.
I have not got real experience of F.H. but have been doing F.H. since 2001 for myself and twigs of my in-laws and I have done what I can over the years asking Aunts who are still alive collecting old photos etc. So I will keep looking and checking FreeBMD and Ancestry along with of coarse Rootsweb. I might buy the death cert. you found as it is the right age and area.
Kind regards Avril
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Valda
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The more likely owner of the Paddington death registration would be
'Deaths Jun 1917
MARSHALL Frederick M 58 Paddington 1a 94
or this could be Frederick Miles Marshall who was in Paddington in 1901.'
Births Jun 1859
Marshall Frederick [MN]iles Kensington 1a 19
Marriages Sep 1879
Marshall Frederick Miles London City 1c 117
Leaving you still with Florence Monday Marshall's birth and death registration in Sculcoates in 1904 as a possible clue to where Frederick Monday Marshall senior may have gone. Or of course this could be the red herring (or both are - the 1917 death registration as well). If you haven't checked through the death registrations for possible Frederick M Marshalls or Goolds (time consuming I know I've done it quite a few times) then you can't know how many other possibles there might be. However what I've said is Frederick Miles Marshall is the only other Marshall with a middle name beginning with M who was born at the same time. Frederick Monday Goold was the only Frederick Goold with a middle name beginning with M. So any other Frederick M Goold or Frederick M Marshall of the right age at death would be worth examining further, particularly any in the Kensington or Hull areas.
Regards
Valda
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frank goold
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hi i dont know if this is relavent to you but my name is frank edward goold my father was frank earnest goold (from london) and my grandfather was frank monday goold who served in the marines in ww1 i have photos of frank monday goold in his uniform and his actual diary he kept in the trenches and his and my dads medals. my dad was in the navy ww2.
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Perro
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My grandfather Frederick Marshall Goold b1891 was an older brother of Frank Goold who was also a Navy man strange how a Londoner like the sea so much or perhaps it was just an excape.
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sue97blue
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Hi my name is Susan Disney nee Goold and I am Frank Goold's sister, daughter of Frank Ernest Goold, grandaughter of Frank Monday Goold.
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Perro
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Hi two new people in a day......
Hi have you ever found a marriage for Frederick Monday Goold father of Frank Monday and my grandfather Frederick Marshall Goold also a half sister Rose Marshall Goold born in 1909 kensington.....
Bye for now Avril
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