James Henry Clayton born 26 Sept 1851 Harrow On the Hill Family History Local History

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James Henry Clayton born 26 Sept 1851 Harrow On the Hill

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Topic: James Henry Clayton born 26 Sept 1851 Harrow On the Hill (Read 1132 times)

cmclayton
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

James Henry Clayton born 26 Sept 1851 Harrow On the Hill
« on: Wednesday 16 January 08 19:03 GMT (UK) »

Hi everyone,

I am trying to find a James Henry Clayton my great grandfather, have posted on the New Zealand board but 2008 are going to be brave and post here.

From New Zealand certificates for James Henry Clayton and his children, he was born approx 1851 Harrow on the Hill Middlesex (I have not been able to find him or his family on the English census and the IGI records are unsourced) from ITM's he arrived in New Zealand approx 1870, his parents names from his death certificate were James Clayton and Kate Thomas and he died 1929 Tauranga New Zealand.

Family stories (which I know can be unture) are that James was an apprentice sailmaker, and his mother (Kate) paid this out and sent him to New Zealand, reasoning being that their was a death and that she wanted James gone. Once in New Zealand James started and owned a lot of newspapers and from his death notice he was educated in Bristol.

It would be very much appreciated if anyone can help me, or point me in the right direction. I have a sad feeling that James Henry Clayton was hiding something and has changed his name.

Thanks heaps for your time - Christine M Clayton


« Last Edit: Wednesday 25 June 08 20:32 BST (UK) by cmclayton »	Logged

BALDOCK - Sussex & New Zealand.....CATE - Hampshire & New Zealand.....CLAYTON - Middlesex & New Zealand....DASSLER.....SCHMIDT.....TISCH - Germany & New Zealand.....HESTER - London & New Zealand.....MILLS - Gloucestershire & New Zealand.....RYE - Kent & New Zealand.....THOMAS - Surrey

carol8353
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Henry and Florence ROGERS- my grandparents

Re: James Henry Clayton born c.1851 Harrow On the Hill
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 17 January 08 15:43 GMT (UK) »

Hello Christine

Do you have James's marriage cert and does it name his father and/or his job?

They are usually much more reliable than death certs,as the person themselves isn't the one giving the info for that one Cool

I too can't see a James Clayton on any census in Harrow that fits Sad

All is not lost quite yet though !

Carol


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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Rogers, Rapkin, Phillips - Hammersmith/Fulham/Paddington areas
Worth Bailey, Heapy, Burgess. All Macclesfield Cheshire
Mockridge,West Monkton Somerset
Jenner,Clapham Surrey
Kendrick,Liverpool
Wensley,Somerset

Coleman and Mc Namara from Ennis, Co Clare, Ireland
Blake and Maloney from Kilbaha Co Clare, Ireland

cmclayton
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Re: James Henry Clayton born c.1851 Harrow On the Hill
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 17 January 08 18:34 GMT (UK) »

Hi Carol

New Zealand was still a young country in the 1870's and the only information at that time required on a marriage certificate was:-

When Married and Were
Name and Surname
Age
Rank or Profession
Condition
Name of Officiating Minister

I have two marriage certificates for James Henry Clayton in New Zealand. Marriage 1# to Caroline Waymouth in 1874 (James is full age and a gentleman) and marriage #2 to Emma Amelia Hester in 1875, (James widowed and an accountant) No parents mentioned on either certificate.

The profession of an accountant still makes me think he has well educated, don't think he had time to be a sailamker, and I do wonder if his parents came from either Scotland or Ireland.

Thanks heaps Christine


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cmclayton
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Re: James Henry Clayton born c.1851 Harrow On the Hill
« Reply #3 on: Friday 18 January 08 23:37 GMT (UK) »

Hi

Are just wondering if any of James Henry Clayton's childrens names could have anything to do with his parents family names. Have listed them just in case.

1/ Caroline Waymouth Clayton
(named after her mother - Caroline Waymouth)

2/ Henry Hester Clayton called Harry
(named after his father James Henry Clayton??? and mother Emma Hester)

3/ Ivy Clayton - no middle name

4/ Eva Clayton - no middle name

5/ Frank Lockwood Clayton

6/ Phillip Hastie Thomas Clayton
(Phillip was bought up has James and Emma Clayton's son, obtaining his birth certificate his mother was a Ida Clayton, same age and born in the same area as Ivy Clayton. Named after Kate Thomas??? or his true father???)

Perhaps it might help - thanks heaps Christine


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cmclayton
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Re: James Henry Clayton born c.1851 Harrow On the Hill
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 07 February 08 22:08 GMT (UK) »

Hi, just a up date,

I have found a Katherine Elizabeth Clayton death 1915 Eastbourne aged 86
makes her birth c1829 - could she be my James Henry Clayton's mother.

In the 1881 English Census she is living with her sister Ann B Savory, both woman are born Surrey England. From freebmd there is a Adey Bellamy Savory who marries a Ann Bristow Thomas, so my Katheine Elizabeth Clayton is a nee Thomas.

If I order these two death certificates for Kate Clayton and Ann Savory will these tell me their parents and husbands names? Huh

Thanks heaps Christine M Clayton


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carol8353
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Henry and Florence ROGERS- my grandparents

Re: James Henry Clayton born c.1851 Harrow On the Hill
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 07 February 08 22:38 GMT (UK) »

Christine,

Can you give the 1881 reference as I cannot see either Ann B Savory or her sister Katherine E Clayton on it anywhere!

Sadly the death certs will not tell you the info you need.
See http://home.clara.net/dixons/Certificates/deaths.htm which will tell you what you are likely to find on a death cert.

You may find their husbands names,but only if the person giving the info knew them.For example it might say widow of Joe Bloggs dustman or something Grin

Otherwise it will just give the informant which may or may not be family.

Will keep looking for you Wink

Regards

Carol


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cmclayton
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Re: James Henry Clayton born c.1851 Harrow On the Hill
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 07 February 08 22:55 GMT (UK) »

Hi Carol,

1891 - RG12/774 Folio 53 Page 40

1881 - RG11/853 Folio 105 Page 11

1841 - hopefuly this is them at school together Ann Thomas and Kate Thomas
HO107/689/13 Folio 58 Page 33

Can not find Katherine/Catherine Thomas in 1851 or 1861 as yet, or a marriage....

Thanks heaps Christine


« Last Edit: Monday 11 February 08 15:31 GMT (UK) by copyright_editor »	Logged

carol8353
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Henry and Florence ROGERS- my grandparents

Re: James Henry Clayton born c.1851 Harrow On the Hill
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 07 February 08 23:24 GMT (UK) »

Catherine says she was born in Brixton Surrey and her sister Ann in Croydon.

Here they are in 1871 RG10; Piece: 874; Folio: 17; Page: 26

There is a Katherine E Thomas in 1861 unmarried and lodging in Paddington Middlesex,who might fit.

RG9; Piece: 2; Folio: 150; Page: 2

I wonder if she never actually DID marry Mr Clayton,and her son was born with her maiden name? But where was he in 1861? With grandma perhaps.

It's late here now but will look again tomorrow.

Carol x


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lizdb
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Re: James Henry Clayton born c.1851 Harrow On the Hill
« Reply #8 on: Friday 08 February 08 15:45 GMT (UK) »

Hi!!

how about this as a possible for Katherine in 1851?

HO107 1699 707 7

Greenford Middx

William Dennis Harris 33
Ann wife 39
Katherine Allcock 60 unmarr visitor
Katherine Clayton 23 married visitor bn Surrey Brixton
Charles? Baxter or Barter 5 no relationship given, bn America
Sarah Cook servant

If this is her, she is already married to James, but no sign of baby James yet.

who on earth little 5 yr old Charles (or whatever, it is very faint) is, is anybody's guess!


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carol8353
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Henry and Florence ROGERS- my grandparents

Re: James Henry Clayton born c.1851 Harrow On the Hill
« Reply #9 on: Friday 08 February 08 15:48 GMT (UK) »

Well done Liz,the search is certainly moving nearer to Harrow isn't it?

Carol


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lizdb
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Re: James Henry Clayton born c.1851 Harrow On the Hill
« Reply #10 on: Friday 08 February 08 15:59 GMT (UK) »

But I cant find a birth for young James

Only possible is a plain James Clayton in Croydon in Oc/Nov/Dec 1852 - maybe she went back to family for actual birth even though they lived around Harrow on the Hill.
Pure specualtion.

Cant find her "hubby" James in 1851, or marriage - yet!


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Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
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cmclayton
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Re: James Henry Clayton born c.1851 Harrow On the Hill
« Reply #11 on: Friday 08 February 08 18:57 GMT (UK) »

Thank you Carol and Liz,

I nearly cried when I read this, finding Kate in 1851 married is great.
I have tried for nearly eight years to find James Henry Clayton back in England,
and his parents. Things have certainly moved forward, the most important thing
to me is that I could be a "Clayton" James didn't change his surname when he
arrived in New Zealand.

Thanks heaps Christine M Clayton


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cmclayton
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Re: James Henry Clayton born c.1851 Harrow On the Hill
« Reply #12 on: Friday 08 February 08 19:10 GMT (UK) »

Hi

Have found on FamilySearch.org the following:

Do not know if these could be her has from the census she is Katherine with a "K" not a "C"

Catherine Elizabeth Thomas
birth 29/4/1829 England
chr. 9/8/1829 Southwark Surrey
parents Thos Thomas and Mary Ann

(Note - Have just found a family member for the above Catherine, and she is in the 1841 census with parents and two sisters Martha and Louise. I have a Catherine also in the 1841 census as a pupil
at school with her sister Ann, which I hope is her.)

Catherine Thomas
chr. 8/2/1829 Saint Saviour Southwark Surrey
parents James Beaumont Thomas and Elizabeth

Thanks Christine


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carol8353
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Henry and Florence ROGERS- my grandparents

Re: James Henry Clayton born c.1851 Harrow On the Hill
« Reply #13 on: Friday 08 February 08 23:32 GMT (UK) »

Chris,

I have to say I'm wary of these two at school in Fulham in 1841.
They both say they were born in the county of Middlesex.
Whereas the Kate and Ann we have found were born in Brixton Surrey(South of the river Thames)

Liz has found a POSSIBLE Katherine in 1851,as I found a POSSIBLE one in 1861.
Neither have any other people living with them to confirm without a doubt that they are the right people.

Don't worry at all about the name not being spelt correctly. My own name often isn't even today- I am Carol,but often get it spelt Carole.So you can imagine the problem our ancestors faced if they couldn't read or write.They would just accept the spelling was correct,as they didn't know if it was or not Wink

My best pal is Kathleen (Kathy) but she is often spelt Cathy.

Carol


« Last Edit: Monday 11 February 08 15:26 GMT (UK) by copyright_editor »	Logged

cmclayton
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Re: James Henry Clayton born c.1851 Harrow On the Hill
« Reply #14 on: Sunday 10 February 08 18:23 GMT (UK) »

Hi Carol and Liz,

Just to let you know that I have sent for the death certificate of Katherine Elizabeth Clayton, there was a Louisa Lowe (housekeeper) living with Kate and Ann for years, so hoping she was still alive with a sound mind and his been an informat with this certificate. Also have sent for Ann Bristow Thomas and Adey Bellamy Savory, hoping this will help with parents.

I do wonder if Kate Thomas and James Clayton ever did marry, baby James may be a Thomas at birth and knowing his father was a Clayton has called himself this when he arrived in New Zealand.

I also have another family that when the husband is listed has married on the census with another wife and family, the first wife is listed as widowed. Perhaps Kate has listed her self as widowed when James really did marry.

Just some ideas that I had.

Thanks heaps Christine


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