James Henry Clayton born 26 Sept 1851 Harrow On the Hill Family History Local History

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Thursday 24 July 08 23:47 BST (UK)

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James Henry Clayton born 26 Sept 1851 Harrow On the Hill

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Topic: James Henry Clayton born 26 Sept 1851 Harrow On the Hill (Read 907 times)

carol8353
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Henry and Florence ROGERS- my grandparents

Re: James Henry Clayton born c.1851 Harrow On the Hill
« Reply #15 on: Monday 11 February 08 09:25 GMT (UK) »

Christine,

I think you're very brave sending for so many certs Grin

I will keep my fingers crossed(and I know Liz will too) that you actually get some useful info from them.

Let us know what the certs tell you,and we'll take up the challenge again.

If James was illegitimate though, I fear you may never be able to trace his roots all the way back.His mothers surname Thomas,may well have Welsh connections.....there's hundreds and hundreds of Thomas's in Wales Roll Eyes

All the best

Carol


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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Rogers, Rapkin, Phillips - Hammersmith/Fulham/Paddington areas
Worth Bailey, Heapy, Burgess. All Macclesfield Cheshire
Mockridge,West Monkton Somerset
Jenner,Clapham Surrey
Kendrick,Liverpool
Wensley,Somerset

Coleman and Mc Namara from Ennis, Co Clare, Ireland
Blake and Maloney from Kilbaha Co Clare, Ireland

cmclayton
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Re: James Henry Clayton born c.1851 Harrow On the Hill
« Reply #16 on: Thursday 21 February 08 01:11 GMT (UK) »

Good morning Carol and Liz

Have received the death certificate for "Katherine Elizabeth Clayton"

14th February 1915 4 Hurst Road
Katherine Elizabeth Clayton
female 86 years
Of independant means widow of James Clayton of independant means
Death - Influenza, bronchitis
Informant - G.E Murly - nephew

On one of the census there was a Hilda Hurly niece - correct spelling could be Murly.

Thanks Christine


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Baldock - Sussex & New Zealand
Cate - Hampshire & New Zealand
Clayton - Middlesex & New Zealand
Dassler / Schmidt / Tisch - Germany & New Zealand
Hester - London & New Zealand
Mills - Gloucestershire & New Zealand
Rye - Kent & New Zealand
Thomas - Surrey

cmclayton
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Re: James Henry Clayton born c.1851 Harrow On the Hill
« Reply #17 on: Thursday 21 February 08 01:23 GMT (UK) »

Also have received marriage certificate for
"Adey Bellamy Savory and Ann Bristow Thomas"

25th June 1846 London
Fathers - Adey Bellamy Savory - Goldsmith
and Samuel Thomas - Merchant
Witness - Mary Savory, Samuel Thoams, ?(w).C Savory, ?(L) Savory and Emma L Thomas

On a marriage certificate, if the father was deceased would this be noted or not? just
was wondering if Samuel Thomas a witness is the father or brother to Ann.

Thanks heaps Christine


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cmclayton
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Re: James Henry Clayton born c.1851 Harrow On the Hill
« Reply #18 on: Thursday 21 February 08 04:20 GMT (UK) »

Just a few findings.

From Familysearch.org Samuel Thomas wife Sarah with children
Katherine Elizabeth Thomas birth - 17 Aug 1827, chr - 18 Nov 1827 St Margeret Lothbury London
Clarissa Martha Thomas birth - 18 June 1823, chr- 17 July 1823 St Margeret Lothbury London

From freebmd there is a Clarissa Martha Thomas married Kensington March 1845 to either a Brenchly/Jemmerson/Morris or Pattison

On the 1861 census where Katherine E Thomas is a lodger there is also a Clarissa M Blanchlq (Brenchly) lodger born Croydon Surrey.

What do you think??? - Christine


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carol8353
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Henry and Florence ROGERS- my grandparents

Re: James Henry Clayton born c.1851 Harrow On the Hill
« Reply #19 on: Thursday 21 February 08 09:26 GMT (UK) »

Quote from: cmclayton on Thursday 21 February 08 01:23 GMT (UK)

On a marriage certificate, if the father was deceased would this be noted or not? just was wondering if Samuel Thomas a witness is the father or brother to Ann.

The short answer is not necessarily Christine Sad

it all depends on the vicar,if he actually asked " what's your dad's name,what job does he do and is he still alive"
Or only part of that Undecided

I think the 1861 census is certainly a good one,whilst I can't see it exactly saying Brenchley,the last few letters are definitely 'ley'.......so it's probably a pretty good bet that you've hit the jackpot here too Grin

And yes I do think that Hilda Hurly should be Murly.

Now to see if I can find out who Emma L Thomas was....unless Liz beats me to it!

Carol


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lizdb
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Re: James Henry Clayton born c.1851 Harrow On the Hill
« Reply #20 on: Thursday 21 February 08 09:32 GMT (UK) »

no - I wont! I'm off for a weekend away later today, (well, Thurs to Sat) so I just popped on here to get a quick fix before I go, but I am being very restrained and NOT getting stuck into long involved look ups! (she says).

It does look as if this is all beginnig to come together a bit now.
Getting certificates is so often the gateway to sorting probelms in genealogy. I know it is pricey (but what hobby is not?) but often the answers, or more often, carefully disguised clues in the form of addresses or witnesses, are there for the finding.

Off to finish packing now!!! Hope this one is all sorted when I get back on Sat!


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Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London

cmclayton
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Re: James Henry Clayton born c.1851 Harrow On the Hill
« Reply #21 on: Friday 22 February 08 22:56 GMT (UK) »

Well Carol and Liz wait to you read this ...........

Don't know now I didn't find this before

From familysearchorg and has source information C013353

James Henry Clayton (Thomas)
christening - 25 June 1854 Mortlake Surrey England
mother - Catherine Elizabeth Thomas

But where is he on the census???

Party time in New Zealand - Christine M Clayton


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carol8353
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Henry and Florence ROGERS- my grandparents

Re: James Henry Clayton born c.1851 Harrow On the Hill
« Reply #22 on: Saturday 23 February 08 00:11 GMT (UK) »

Oh Christine that's fabulous !!!

Doesn't sound like dad is mentioned does it?

Maybe we can find his birth cert now then.

Regards

Carol


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lizdb
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Re: James Henry Clayton born c.1851 Harrow On the Hill
« Reply #23 on: Saturday 23 February 08 15:56 GMT (UK) »

Quote from: carol8353 on Thursday 21 February 08 09:26 GMT (UK)

Now to see if I can find out who Emma L Thomas was....unless Liz beats me to it!

I'm back!! And you've not found Emma yet Huh

!!!

Here is a possible from the IGI:

Christening 3 nov 1816
St MAry's Lambeth
Emma Louisa Thomas

parents Samuel and Sarah

so - possible older unmarried sister for Katherine and Clarissa?

but very risky - Thomas is such a common name.

Great news finding James Clayton/Thomas's christening on IGI.
Mortlake doesnt fit in so well with the other places we have found - but they seem to travel around.

but I still cant locate his birth registration.

I would pop a specific request on the Surrey board to see if anyone has access to Mortlake PR's - to see if actual entry has any more detial - sometimes you find a nice vicar will record d-o-b esp if the child is older than a baby.


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Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
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carol8353
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Henry and Florence ROGERS- my grandparents

Re: James Henry Clayton born c.1851 Harrow On the Hill
« Reply #24 on: Saturday 23 February 08 15:59 GMT (UK) »

Well Christine,I have searched backwards and forwards and up and down,but still cannot find the birth reg of James......nor him on any census Huh

Maybe as a single mum she didn't feel comfortable registering him?

Anyway now that you have found that Baptism you could email the London Metropolitan Archives to see how much they'd charge for a copy of the record.

ask.lma AT cityoflondon.gov.uk (replace AT with @)

As you know the exact date and church they usually do it for a 15 minute charge,they'll tell you the price.

Alternately if you are anywhere near a MormonLDS centre you could get the film of Mortlake Parish Church(Surrey) sent there for you to view.

Now you have a jolly good idea of who his mum was and where she came from.....all you need now is his dad Cool

All the best

Carol

PS I've just thought,seeing as he said he was born in Harrow,perhaps he was brought up there by someone other than his real mum?


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lizdb
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Re: James Henry Clayton born c.1851 Harrow On the Hill
« Reply #25 on: Saturday 23 February 08 16:07 GMT (UK) »

I was only at the LMA last week!

But I have just checked their website, and it looks like their records for St MAry's Mortlake dont go as late as 1854.


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Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
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carol8353
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Henry and Florence ROGERS- my grandparents

Re: James Henry Clayton born c.1851 Harrow On the Hill
« Reply #26 on: Saturday 23 February 08 16:43 GMT (UK) »

Hello Mate,welcome back Grin

I wish I could work out how to use the LMA's website to it's fullest Roll Eyes

I wonder where the baptisms are then?
Could they still be at the church,surely not?

I wondered if they had bastardy bonds which might mention dad's full name.

All Kate's siblings seem to have been baptised at Lothbury,maybe Emma L is a sister in law,but as you say Thomas is so common a surname, she could be anybody!

Carol


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cmclayton
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Re: James Henry Clayton born c.1851 Harrow On the Hill
« Reply #27 on: Saturday 23 February 08 18:35 GMT (UK) »

Hi Carol and Liz,

Thanks heaps for your help, ideas and time. I will keep you up to date.

I have also been trying to trace Katherine Elizabeth Thomas's, brothers and sisters hoping to find descendants, which I will place on the Surrey board.

Just out of interest the GE Murly - nephew on her death certificate is
Gilbert E Murly born approx 1849 Moldavian Galatz - quite a long away from home.

Once again thanks heaps - Christine M Clayton

PS Dad would have been happy to know that we had found a christening record
in the name of James Henry Clayton. Just makes you feel that yes, you do exist.


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cmclayton
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Re: James Henry Clayton born c.1851 Harrow On the Hill
« Reply #28 on: Tuesday 29 April 08 20:45 BST (UK) »

Hi

Just an update - no fathers name mentioned.

Page 18 of Baptisms solemnized in the Prish of Mortlake
in the Country of Surrey in the year 1854

When Baptised - #142 1854 June 25th
Child's Christian Name - James Henry Clayton
Parent's Name - Catherine Elizabeth Thomas
Abode - London
In margin looks like - b. Sep 26th 1851 - which could be date of birth

From this it looks like his full name is James Henry Clayton Thomas, arriving in New Zealand he has dropped the Thomas and is James Henry Clayton.

Interesting to note that James and his wife Emma bring up their daughters son (my grandfather) as their own child, this information was all known to family members. His name being Phillip Hastie Thomas Clayton. Another one of my brick walls. Just an idea - Hastie (father) Thomas (grandfather) Clayton (greatgrandfather)

Any ideas where to go from here would be very much appreciated.

Thanks heaps Christine


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cmclayton
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Re: James Henry Clayton born c.1851 Harrow On the Hill
« Reply #29 on: Tuesday 24 June 08 22:03 BST (UK) »

Hi

Just had to tell someone,

Have found my James Henry Clayton on a passenger list. Grin

He is on the "La Hogue" aged 16 as a crew member O/S
from London arriving New South Wales Australia on the 7 Nov 1867
his origin location Harrow

So from his 1854 baptism to leaving for Australia 1867
he hopefully is on a 1861 census somewhere.

Thanks heaps Christine


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