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Topic: Leiper family in Aucheneross,New Cumnock (Read 955 times)
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Kylie B
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Posts: 157
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi,
I am looking for a Thomas Leiper born circa 1788 in the Aucheneross, New Cumnock area. I do not know his parents, but do know her married one Agnes Herbert in 1797 in Castle Mains, New Cumnock.
Can anyone tell me where to find baptism records for this period and place, or who has access and could do a search please??
Would be very keen to find Thomas parents, and any siblings please!
Family later went by Napier, as an alternative seach name.
Thanks
Kylie B
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ev
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1167
TIA after her op. (clothes by "NIKKI")
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hi kylie b
looking at the IGI baptism is listed as 8th april 1778 avondale lanark
his parents thomas leiper and marrion biggar and a death of 1813
but this is a submitted entry so i don't know what the source is
his marriage is also a submitted entry giving the same baptism and
i notice new cumnock is in ayr
ev
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Kylie B
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 157
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks Ev- will take a look!!
Does anyone know if Scotland People would have this baptism and marriage on their on-line records??
Kylie B
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CuriousDiana
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Hi
There are 3 entries for Leiper birth/baptisms on Scotlandspeople during the period 1778 - 1792, as follows:
Thomas to Thomas Leiper, day labourer. in Strath (this is right to edge of page and may be Strathaven as that place appears a couple more times on page. Born 2.4.1778, bapt. 8.4.1778
Thomas to Andrew Leiper in Kirkwood. Born 26.4.1778, bapt. 8.5.1778
Thomas to James Leiper in Parkhead of Kype (?). Bapt. 3.6.1787.
All the above are in Avondale. In none of the above entries is the mother's name given.
Diana
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ev
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1167
TIA after her op. (clothes by "NIKKI")
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hi diana 
solid work 
ev
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Kylie B
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 157
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Diana - thats great!! Thanks very much!
Now to tracking down the marriage of father, Thomas, to Marrion Bigger to confirm the IGI details.
Do Scottish deaths usually list parents - would this be accessable anywhere for Thomas Jnr's apparent death in 1813??
Thanks all!!
Kylie B
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Piglet01
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 662
Captain Bob as a boy
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Hello Kylie B
From SP - some info on what you can get on OPRs. You can get a very good detailed breakdown on what is on post 1855 certs by following the link: http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/content/help/index.aspx?r=554&404
There's a wide variety of info on the site. Regards, Steve :O)
"Old Parish Registers
The Old Parish Registers (OPR's) comprise the records of births & baptisms, banns & marriages and deaths & burials kept by individual parishes of the Established Church (Church of Scotland) before the introduction of civil registration in 1855. The parish minister or the session clerk usually assumed responsibility for maintaining the registers, but since there was no standard format employed, record keeping varied enormously from parish to parish and also from year to year. As a result, the information may be sparse, unreliable and difficult to read.
The oldest register dates from 1553 (baptisms and banns from Errol, Perthshire), but although there was a requirement from 1552 that parishes record baptisms and marriages, many did not commence until much later, and some more remote areas only have registers from the early 19th century. Some registers have been lost or destroyed and the condition of the surviving 3500 is variable. The General Register Office for Scotland holds the surviving original registers.
Registration in Church of Scotland's registers was costly and unpopular, so many people did not bother to register events at all.
Although details of some non-conformists can be found in Established Church registers, many members of other religious denominations chose to have events registered in their own churches. In addition, rapid urbanisation during the 19th century contributed to the diminishing influence of the Church and a decrease in registration in these areas. It was estimated at the time that as few as 30% of events actually occurring were being recorded for some urban parishes.
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McDonald originating in Aberlour. Smith (Aberdeenshire/Aberdeen), Esslemont, Christie, Robbie; Scott (in Aberdour). Crosbie and Willison. Roxburgh: Lawrie, Thomson, Paxton, Peacock, Amos, Robson
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CuriousDiana
RootsChat Senior
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Posts: 309
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Hi
Thomas Leiper married Marrion Biggar 4.4.1776, parishioners, Avondale Lanarkshire
I have used up my spare credits. It would be worth your while buying some credits if you want to find the whole family.
Diana
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Kylie B
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 157
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Diana,
Many Many Many thanks for your generosity and assistance!!
Will do exactly as you suggest - any search tips for me??
Gratefully
Kylie B
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CuriousDiana
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Posts: 309
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Hi Kylie
What exactly do you know for sure about this family aside from the "submitted entry" on the IGI? (you should always be wary of these). Do you have some accurate later information on them which we could use to trace them?
I only ask because the only Auchenross I can find is in Perthshire. The only Leipers at the time specified are in Lanarkshire. You are referring to the New Cumnock area which is in Ayrshire.
As another Rootschatter has explained, the Old Parish Records are of the Established Church only. Also, many records are illegible, lost, or were never made in the firstplace. In many small parishes, there was no minister for long periods of time, so co-habitation was regarded as a legal marriage. There are no death records on Scotlandspeople for the time prior to civil registration as yet. They say the Burial records from the Old Parish Records will be on the website some time in the future .
So, do let us know what you have so that we can help
Diana
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Kylie B
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 157
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Ok, this is what I do have...
Robet Leiper born 1799 Paisley Renfrewshire; married Isabella Miller on 9 August 1828, Avondale, Lanarkshire.
Robert was the son of Thomas Leiper born Ayrshire 1778. Thomas married Agnes Herbert 1797 in Castle Mains, New Cumnock, Ayrshire, and died in Gorbals Lanarkshire in 1813.
This couple had a daughter Jennet born in Castle Mains Ayrshire in 1798, Robert in Paisley Renfrewshire in 1799, and then 6 other children all born in 'Gorbals, Lanarkshire'.
This is the information I have from Robert and Isabella's emigration records in Australia, and Roberts Australian death certificate - this couple and their children emigrated in 1838. Aucheneross appears on a transcribed copy, so it could always be a misread of the actual document.
Therefore, it would seem the Leipers ended up in Lanarkshire, possibly coming from Ayrshire, via Renfrewshire or even originated in Lanarkshire in the first place....I think!!!
So are we on the right track do you think???
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CuriousDiana
RootsChat Senior
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Posts: 309
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Hi Kylie
I cannot find birth or marriage of Thomas Leiper said to be b. 1778 Ayrshire. I tried some creative variations of his name without luck!
A bit more luck with his children -
Jennet LOPPER bapt. 12.8.1798 New Cumnock Ayrshire.
Robert LEPPER born 16th, bapt. 17.11.1799 Renfrew.
John NAPIER
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CuriousDiana
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Posts: 309
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Sorry, Kylie, don't know what happened there!
John NAPIER bapt. 21.3.1802 Glasgow City, Lauristowns (?)
George NAPIER bapt. 1.1.1804 Glasgow City
Jean LIPPER bapt. 16.3.1806 Glasgow City (she must have died young)
Thomas NAPIER bapt. 4.3.1808 Glasgow City
Jean NAPIER bapt. 30.12.1810 Glasgow City (born to Thomas Napier and Agnes HALBERT)
Agnes NAPIER bapt. 5.8.1813 Glasgow City
The Lipper, Lepper, Lopper, Napier seems to be more a transcription error than anything else. The records are hard to read, and Leiper is rather unusual.
I could not find either Thomas or Robert's marriage, sorry.
Diana
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CuriousDiana
RootsChat Senior
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Hi Kylie
I do think you are on the right track, however you may never have proof as some of the baptisms and marriages you mnetion are simply not in the OPR records. You could make up a tree to use as a basis for further research, as follows:
You have Thomas Leiper who married Marrion Biggar 4.4.1776 in Avondale parish, Lanarkshire. This marriage is in the records.
Thomas had a son Thomas Leiper b. 2.4.1778 Bapt. 8.4.1778 Avondale parish Lanarkshire. This baptism is in the records, altho' mother's name is not shown.
I think it is possible that Thomas was b. Avondale (town of Strathaven) as per this baptism record, and not in New Cumnock. Because Thomas married in New Cumnock, his son Robert Leiper may simply have assumed that his father was born there. Especially as Robert's older sister Jennet was born in New Cumnock. Here I am assuming that the only reason you say Thomas was b. New Cumnock is that this was stated on Robert's immigration records. Is that right?
Thomas married Agnes Herbert 1797 in New Cumnock, but this marriage is not in the OPR records. Thomas and Agnes had 8 children as per my list in the previous 2 posts. The first child was b. in New Cumnock, the second, Robert, in 1799 Paisley, Renfrewshire.
I am inclined to think this was basically an Avondale (Strathaven) family. Like so many Scottish families they had to move away to find work (Thomas was described as a 'day labourer'). Thomas b. 1778 went to New Cumnock where he met and married Agnes Herbert and they had their first child. They must have immediately moved to Paisley, Renfrewshire as their 2nd child Robert was born there in 1799. Soon after, like hundreds of thousand others, they went to Glasgow where all the work was. Robert returned to Avondale to marry Isabella Miller in 1828. (altho' this marriage is not in the records.)
Have a look at a map and you will see that the distances we are talking about are not great.
I will get back to you if I find anything else, but I do recommend you get onto Scotlandspeople yourself.
Diana
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CuriousDiana
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Kylie, I found the marriage of Robert Leiper and Isabella Miller. She is shown as Isobel Millar.
Diana
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