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Topic: Reading, Berkshire -- James ALLEN (Read 572 times)
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rayjoan
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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I have a birth and death date for my James ALLEN but I know little about his first wife. Her name was Tabitha Merritt, b. about 1795 in Reading. They were married at St. Giles on 27 Oct 1811.
Would church records contain any information as to her parents and her birth date?
Thank you for any help
Joan
New Brunswick, Canada
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behindthefrogs
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The marriage entry in the parish register will not help you with her parents' names in 1811. The only possible help would be the witnesses but no relationship will be shown.
However with such an uncommon name you ought to be able to find a baptism and that will give the Christian names of both parents.
David
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Living in Berkshire. Origin Northampton & Milton Keynes DETAILS OF THE FOLLOWING NAMES CAN BE FOUND IN SURNAME INTERESTS AT FOOT OF PAGE Wilson, Higgs, Buswell, PARCELL, Matthews, TAMKIN, Seckington, Pates, Williams, Webb, Arthur, MAYNARD, Caves, Norman, Winch, Culverhouse, Drakeley. Johnson, Routledge, SHIRT, SAICH, Mills, SAUNDERS, EDLIN, Perry, Vickers, Pakeman, Griffiths, Marston, Turner, Child, Sheen, Gray, Woolhouse Census Info is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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rayjoan
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Thanks so much for your reply, David.
I have tried on every front to get some sort of birth or baptism information for Tabitha but it seems to be non-existent. If anyone could help with the baptismal information, that would be wonderful but I don't know where to go next.
Regards
Joan.
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behindthefrogs
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I have just realized that Tabitha was under 21 when she married. This means there is a slight chance of find a note which which indicates the name of a father who gave permission for the marriage to take place in the parish register. Also if they were married by licence, you might be able to find the marriage bond which again could name who gave permission.
David
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Living in Berkshire. Origin Northampton & Milton Keynes DETAILS OF THE FOLLOWING NAMES CAN BE FOUND IN SURNAME INTERESTS AT FOOT OF PAGE Wilson, Higgs, Buswell, PARCELL, Matthews, TAMKIN, Seckington, Pates, Williams, Webb, Arthur, MAYNARD, Caves, Norman, Winch, Culverhouse, Drakeley. Johnson, Routledge, SHIRT, SAICH, Mills, SAUNDERS, EDLIN, Perry, Vickers, Pakeman, Griffiths, Marston, Turner, Child, Sheen, Gray, Woolhouse Census Info is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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rayjoan
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I have searched every site I know of to try to find this young woman. As you say, with such an unusual name, one would think she would be easy to find. I believe she died in 1822 and James remarried as he appears on the censuses with a wife named "Sarah". With the information from all the censuses, I believe Sarah's name to be "Champ" from Pangbourne. The last child of James and Tabitha was born in 1822 so she may have died in childbirth or shortly thereafter. This is all speculation, of course, but I am finding more and more information pointing to it as fact.
Regards
Joan.
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behindthefrogs
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Your profile doesn't give any indication of where you live but I suspect your only chance of making progress is a visit to Berkshire Record Office, as most of the records you require are not online and can only be found there.
A scan of the birth briefs on the Berks FHS site shows no sign of Tabitha but there is a Sarah Merrett with no dates indicated. These birth briefs are only extracts from members trees.
David
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Living in Berkshire. Origin Northampton & Milton Keynes DETAILS OF THE FOLLOWING NAMES CAN BE FOUND IN SURNAME INTERESTS AT FOOT OF PAGE Wilson, Higgs, Buswell, PARCELL, Matthews, TAMKIN, Seckington, Pates, Williams, Webb, Arthur, MAYNARD, Caves, Norman, Winch, Culverhouse, Drakeley. Johnson, Routledge, SHIRT, SAICH, Mills, SAUNDERS, EDLIN, Perry, Vickers, Pakeman, Griffiths, Marston, Turner, Child, Sheen, Gray, Woolhouse Census Info is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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rayjoan
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I live in New Brunswick, Canada.
I did see the Sarah Merritt name on something I was looking at and had considered it but I think I
remember the dates and information did not fit.
Thank you so much for your information, David. Much appreciated.
Joan.
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jillruss
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Gt Gt Grandfather Shepherd 1827-1910
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I know from experience that it doesn't necessarily follow that, just because there's an unusual name involved, that person is going to be easy to find. I have a Bathsheba Boothroyd in W Yks and she's proving to be very elusive. 
Same thing with your Tabitha. There's no sign of her in the IGI. I found the marriage to James Allen in Reading on Family History Online, but I'm curious to know how you know when and where Tabitha was born?
You say about 1795 and in Reading, but the marriage record doesn't give those details and, if you think she died in 1822, I'm assuming you haven't found her on any of the censuses?
Jill
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See Surname Interests Table +
Major brickwalls:
John Frith mge to Fanny, Bucks? c 1798
Bathsheba Boothroyd bp W Yks c1802
John Bishop bp E Yks c1758
Joseph Symonds mg to Sarah, prob Berks c 1735-40
John Horwood mg to Martha, Berks c 1735-40
Sarah Sculler bp Berks area c 1675
Paul Phillips bp Berks/Bucks c 1720
William Newell bp Berks/Bucks/Oxon c 1765
Richard Troughton mg to Jane, Westmoreland c 1732
Mary Simon bp Shrops c.1795
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rayjoan
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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The information about the marriage was given to me by a kind person from Berkshire quite some time ago. I also found the marriage later on FHL.
I found the death for Tabitha Allen on FHL -- which is recorded in 1824 also in Berkshire. (I mistakenly quoted 1822 previously). The address is East Street, James' address.
I have 5 tentative children for this couple. A boy and a girl were christened on the same date in 1822 -- although they may have been born in different years and just happened to be christened on the same date. The eldest of the children, born in 1811, the year they were married, is my g-g-grandmother. Information found about her on her death certificate indicates 1811 is the year of her birth.
I have not found Tabitha on any of the censuses as I believe they start in 1841, do they not? I haven't known of any earlier ones. From census information re James and his second wife, Sarah, I found they were married in 1831 so I believe Tabitha died between 1822 and 1831. I've traced James and know that he remarried and I've been able to trace him to his death. I have James' death certificate. I also have Sarah's, that of his second wife.
As to knowing Tabitha was born in 1794 and in Reading, I don't. That was the reason for my asking. I had to give some information as to an approximate year, and because she was married in Reading and lived in Reading, she may have been born there and I was hoping someone would do a look-up for me.
Joan.
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behindthefrogs
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The parish record for 1824 of Tabitha's death would have been a burial record and in 1824 that record should give her age. From the other evidence that you have given it seems much more likely that she was born before 1790 and was of full age when she married. Do you have any details of James' date of birth as this may give another indication?
David
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Living in Berkshire. Origin Northampton & Milton Keynes DETAILS OF THE FOLLOWING NAMES CAN BE FOUND IN SURNAME INTERESTS AT FOOT OF PAGE Wilson, Higgs, Buswell, PARCELL, Matthews, TAMKIN, Seckington, Pates, Williams, Webb, Arthur, MAYNARD, Caves, Norman, Winch, Culverhouse, Drakeley. Johnson, Routledge, SHIRT, SAICH, Mills, SAUNDERS, EDLIN, Perry, Vickers, Pakeman, Griffiths, Marston, Turner, Child, Sheen, Gray, Woolhouse Census Info is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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jillruss
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Posts: 2047
Gt Gt Grandfather Shepherd 1827-1910
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Hi Joan,
You are right about the 1841 census being the earliest that actually includes names - that's why I couldn't understand how you seemed to know when and where Tabitha was born as it's usually the early censuses which provide this information. The way you put it in your first post made it seem that you knew she was born in Reading about 1795.
Not to worry - it looks as if David may be right and she was born before 1790 and it doesn't change the fact that there's no sign of her on the IGI. Reading is very close to both Oxfordshire and Buckinghamshire, so it's possible that she was from another county, not necessarily Berks.
However, I took a look on the Berks Burial Index to see if there was a particular area where Merritts were gathered - there are very few buried in Reading - and they seem to be pretty well spaced out, but Bradfield seems to have a lot around the late 1700s.
I've looked at a few Oxfordshire parishes near Reading - Caversham, Goring, Whitchurch, Shiplake - as well as Sonning in Berks, and I'm afraid there's no sign of her.
Where was James baptised?
Sorry,
Jill
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See Surname Interests Table +
Major brickwalls:
John Frith mge to Fanny, Bucks? c 1798
Bathsheba Boothroyd bp W Yks c1802
John Bishop bp E Yks c1758
Joseph Symonds mg to Sarah, prob Berks c 1735-40
John Horwood mg to Martha, Berks c 1735-40
Sarah Sculler bp Berks area c 1675
Paul Phillips bp Berks/Bucks c 1720
William Newell bp Berks/Bucks/Oxon c 1765
Richard Troughton mg to Jane, Westmoreland c 1732
Mary Simon bp Shrops c.1795
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rayjoan
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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Hi Jill:
I wrote my last message late last night and missed a couple of important details. Tabitha's death shown on Family History OnLine also shows her age. Her age shows 37 so David would be right. She was born in 1787. That may change the water on the beans, as they say.
You are right that this Tabitha does not show up on the IGI. There are 12 entries for Tabitha Merritt (various spellings/Marriott - I didn't use a county in my search). Half are too early and an entry for a marriage in 1792 for Portsea shows 4 times. One birth in Lancs in 1784 seems too early, according to the burial information.
James' information was first gleaned from the marriage certificate of my 2g-grandmother when she married Charles Woods (my maiden name is Woods). Working backwards, and knowing she was born at St. Giles, Reading, Berkshire, I found a couple of possibles on the IGI. Because all the information I had at hand was St. Giles, Reading, I tried to stay with that throughout my search. I do know people go afield at times, but the information always centred around East Street in Reading. I don't have a definitive birth date/christening date for this James but 1790-1792 would be correct.
James' death certificate shows he died in 1883 at age 93. It gives a daughter's name present at death which matches my records. There was always a year or two discrepancy on all the censuses as well but James and Sarah always lived at the same address at East Street. It's possible the daughter may not have known his exact age.
The 1841 census has James' mother, Elizabeth, living with them. She is 71. She died in 1846.
I think this is about all the information I can think of at this point. If anyone can give me any dates that fit, please do let me know.
Thank you
Joan.
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behindthefrogs
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The problem with a 1787 baptism is that it falls in the period 1783 to 1794. During this time a tax of three pence was levied on baptisms and so many people particularly the poor were deterred from registering them. Even though in some cases the children were baptised the clergy often cooperated and didn't include them in the register.
David
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Living in Berkshire. Origin Northampton & Milton Keynes DETAILS OF THE FOLLOWING NAMES CAN BE FOUND IN SURNAME INTERESTS AT FOOT OF PAGE Wilson, Higgs, Buswell, PARCELL, Matthews, TAMKIN, Seckington, Pates, Williams, Webb, Arthur, MAYNARD, Caves, Norman, Winch, Culverhouse, Drakeley. Johnson, Routledge, SHIRT, SAICH, Mills, SAUNDERS, EDLIN, Perry, Vickers, Pakeman, Griffiths, Marston, Turner, Child, Sheen, Gray, Woolhouse Census Info is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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rayjoan
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Thanks so much for that information, David. I had never heard of that before and had no idea that was happening then. It did seem strange to me that I could not access many of the baptisms for which I've been searching. I thought it was just an oversight of those putting the information on the IGI.
Regards
Joan.
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Marmaduke 123
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Hi Rayjean
I'm off to Berkshire record office tomorrow so will look for your Tabitha in the Reading St Laurence records, which are not on the IGI.
Anne
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