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Topic: The Nelson (or Nielson) Line (Read 2393 times)
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tommacgregor
RootsChat Leaver
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1248
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello All,
As many of you would know, Margaret Buchanan Forsyth, the daughter of John Forsyth and Agnes Beveridge, was my Grandmother. You would also know that "Sancti" was kind enough to send me a photograph of the last resting place of John and Agnes at Bowhill Cemetery. What "Sancti" probably hadn't realised was that the last resting place of Margaret and her third husband, Thomas Gourlay, was only a short distance away from her parents.
Elizabeth (Beveridge) Nielson was the daughter of John Nielson and Helen Nielson (or Nelson). John had married Helen on 18th February, 1816 at Old Monkland in Lanarkshire and died on 10th July, 1855. Looking at the date, July 1855, I would imagine that his Death Certificate would give precise details about his date of birth, place of birth and who his parents were.
Although I am led to believe that John was born "about 1791" at Old Monkland, I have a faint recollection that his family actually originated around Bathgate. I also have some memory of seeing some document stating that his wife, Helen, was the daughter of Daniel Nielson and Janet Thomson. However, unfortunately I don't have conclusive proof of that.
Kind regards,
Tom.
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9083
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Hi Tom
A bit of padding out for you on this line. To set the background, from my previous post, these were the children showing to John and Helen N(i)elson, maiden name also N(i)elson:
1. Thomas Nielson Birth: 17 FEB 1817 Greenend, Lanark, Scotland
2. James Nielson Birth: 05 JAN 1820 Greenend, Lanark, Scotland
3. Alexander Nielson Birth: 29 MAY 1822 Faskine, Lanark, Scotland
4. Bruce Neilson Birth: 10 MAY 1827 Cambuslang, Lanark, Scotland - died 1827
5. ELISABETH NEILSON Christening: 17 AUG 1828 Cambuslang, Lanark, Scotland
6. JANET NEILSON Christening: 27 FEB 1831 Cambuslang, Lanark, Scotland
7. JANE NIELSON Christening: 04 MAY 1834 Old Monkland, Lanark, Scotland
8. Edward Nielson Birth: 10 MAY 1836 Gartsherrie, Lanark, Scotland - died 1840
9. HELEN NELSON Christening: 07 JUL 1839 Old Monkland, Lanark, Scotland
In addition, we now have a new entry, John born c. 1825 - died 1847
Not sure if you are aware, Helen and John died within two days of each other in 1855:
1855 NELSON JOHN MAIN 62 OLD MONKLAND (MIDDLE DISTRICT) /LANARK 652/02 0219 - 10 July
1855 NELSON HELEN SMITH 64 OLD MONKLAND (MIDDLE DISTRICT) /LANARK 652/02 0215 - 8 July
Background from their certs (I can't ever resist 1855 certs  ):
John - Place of birth Bathgate, age 62 at death. Parents James, collier, and Janet Main. Son James reported death. Cause of death was PHTIHSIS (Phthisis [ty'sis] * Literally, means a wasting disease but almost invariably will mean pulmonary tuberculosis/ Any debilitating lung or throat affections; a severe cough; asthma, source: www.paul_smith.doctors.org.uk/ArchaicMedicalTerms.htm) - not surprising given his occupation 
Helen - Place of birth Carnwath Lanarkshire, age 66 at death. Parents Alexander, collier, and Elizabeth Smith. Son in law William Deans (spl.?) reported her death (not surprising given that husband John would have been close to death by this point). Cause of death was a diseased knee joint.
Helen and John were living at 36 Quarry Row in Gartsherrie and were buried in the Gartsherrie Church Yard. I found this photo of Gartsherrie Church Yard (now known as St Andrews) posted by RootsChat's own apanderson  http://scottishwargraves.phpbbweb.com/scottishwargraves-ptopic84.html - good photo of it. Also, www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,273248.0.html
Regards.
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9083
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Some census info:
1841:
John Neilson 45, coal miner
Helen Neilson 40
Alexander Neilson 20
James Neilson 20
Alexander Neilson 15
John Neilson 15
Elizabeth Neilson 12
Janet Neilson 10
Jane Neilson 5
Helen Neilson 2
Address: Gartsherrie South Row, Old Monkland
1851:
John Nelson 56, coal miner, b. Bathgate
Helen Nelson 57, b. Wilsontown, Lanark
James Nelson 29, coal miner, b. Greenend, Lanark
Jean Nelson 16, b. Gartshena, Lanark
Helen Nelson 11, b. Gailshenie, Lanark
Address: 50 Shiver Row, Gartsherrie
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9083
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Some background on Helen's family. Parents Alexander and Elizabeth Smith.
Children showing to them, a mixture of actual extracts and submitted entries:
1. Alexander Neilson Christening: 20 JUL 1790 Carnwath, Lanark, Scotland
2. Thomas Neilson Birth: 20 APR 1792 Carnwath, Lanark, Scotland
3. HELEN NEILSON Christening: 01 JUN 1794 Carnwath, Lanark, Scotland
4. Neilson - male Christening: 21 FEB 1796 Carnwath, Lanark, Scotland
5. MARGARET NELSON Christening: 15 APR 1798 Carnwath, Lanark, Scotland
6. ELIZABETH NELSON Christening: 23 MAR 1800 Carnwath, Lanark, Scotland
7. JEAN STEWART NEILSON Christening: 29 NOV 1801 Carnwath, Lanark, Scotland
8. Edward Lambert Neilson Christening: 02 OCT 1803 Carnwath, Lanark, Scotland
9. John Neilson Christening: 27 MAY 1805 Carnwath, Lanark, Scotland
10. Alexander Neilson Christening: 12 JUN 1808 Carnwath, Lanark, Scotland
11. AGNES NIELSON Christening: 21 APR 1811 Old Monkland, Lanark, Scotland
For John's side, with parents James and Janet Main. Children showing to them are all actual extract:
1. ANN NEILSON Christening: 06 APR 1783 Muiravonside, Stirling, Scotland
2. NICOLAS NEILSON Female Christening: 27 MAR 1785 Bathgate, West Lothian, Scotland
3. JOHN NEILSON Christening: 28 JAN 1787 Bathgate, West Lothian, Scotland
3. ALEXANDER NEILSON Christening: 07 JUN 1789 Bathgate, West Lothian, Scotland
4. AGNES BINNING NEILSON Christening: 05 JUN 1791 Bathgate, West Lothian, Scotland
5. JANET NEILSON Christening: 18 AUG 1793 Bathgate, West Lothian, Scotland
6. JOHN NEILSON Birth: 05 NOV 1795/ Christening: 08 NOV 1795 Bathgate, West Lothian, Scotland
7. JAMES NEILSON Christening: 01 JUL 1798 Bathgate, West Lothian, Scotland
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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apanderson
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1322
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Hi Tom,
(Thanks to Monica for bringing this post to my attention)
I think the Neilson Family which I found in Gartsherrie Churchyard might be related. The following is the MI from the stone and the details are as best as I can manage!!
Erected by James Neilson & Jane Shepherd in loving memory of their daughter JEANIE
Who died 22nd November 1888 aged 7 years
Also their son THOMAS NEILSON, 2nd Lieut. Highland Light Infantry
Who fell in action in France 18th November 1916 aged 28 years
Also their son JOHN who died 11th January 1925 aged 32 years
Interred in Old Monkland Cemetery
Also the above JAMES NEILSON who died 20th January 1928 aged 77 years
And the above JANE SHEPHERD who died 22nd March 1942 aged 87 years
Anne
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tommacgregor
RootsChat Leaver
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1248
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello Ann,
Monica and I have worked quite hard on the Nielson family and have come up with quite a range of valuable information. That information will be inserted into my data base that has been developed over quite a long period of time. When various pieces of information are inserted into the appropriate time periods, it's truly amazing the picture that emerges.
At the end of the day those hundreds of pages of data will be used to assist as many researchers as possible.
I would like to take this opportunity of thanking you most sincerely and would invite you to contact me either on the "live forum" or by private e-mail if the amount of information becomes too cumbersome.
Kind regards,
Tom.
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tommacgregor
RootsChat Leaver
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1248
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello All,
As most people who have got to know me through RootsChat, will know, I derive a great deal of pleasure in searching through my family history papers and trying to connect the various families on it. To me, RootsChat is all about a group of friendly people who are willing to stretch out a helping hand when needed. I don't see the site as something that expects perfection in the way that we express ourselves or expects us to be experts in the field of Genealogy. I'm the first to admit that I occasionally get things wrong, or I make a posting that comes out not in the way that I intended.
Now and again, I simply like to communicate with people who are from the same part of Scotland as myself and natter about years gone by.
However, when it comes to Family History, I treat it as merely a hobby that should be enjoyed, and if what I discover can be of use to other researchers out there, then I'm delighted.
For my own amusement I was having a look at a Census return taken at Minto Street in Auchterderran. My reason for looking at this area was because I believed that certain members of the NIELSON family had settled there. I was correct about that, and so decided to piece together the missing information on the Census return merely to pass the time as well as get a clearer picture of members of the family.
What I found was:
Janet Nielson Widow Age 47 born at Leslie, Fife
So, who the Dickens was this middle-aged lady? She had been christened Janet HONEYMAN on the 7th of July, 1830 at Leslie to David HONEYMAN and Janet BURGESS. The age of 47 on the Census was, therefore, incorrect. Since she was shown as a Widow, who was her husband? The answer to that was that she had married John NIELSON, who had been born around about 1827 in nearby Ballingry, near Lochgelly. I was saddened to find out that John had died on the 10th of May, 1868 at Ballingry only a short time after the birth of his youngest child, Robert.
In 1881, staying with his mother in Minto Street, was Janet's third oldest son, John who had been born on 12th January, 1859 at Ballingry. Andrew, her fourth eldest son, born on 11th April, 1865, and Robert her youngest son, who had been born on 28th June, 1867.
I will continue with this on my next posting because I want to show you further information as well as showing you some pretty good examples of naming patterns.
Kind Regards,
Tom.
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tommacgregor
RootsChat Leaver
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1248
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello Again,
To continue from my previous posting. You will recall that I was discussing Janet Nielson, M.S. HONEYMAN, the widow of John NIELSON who had died at the early age of about 41 at Ballingry in Fife. To those of you who don't know Fife, Ballingry is "just over Benarty Hill from Loch Leven".
What I wanted to know now was something about the parents of this couple, and during my look at them, I was surprised to see that John NIELSON's father, James, who had been born about 1797, was believed to have been born in Ireland. That explained why I had been having difficulties in trying to gather information about that side of the family! However, a good thing that came out of the exercise was that I learned that James NIELSON had died post-1855, around the year 1873 to be more precise, and the place of death was Ballingry.
When James was round about his mid-20's, he married an Isabel SHAND at Lochgelly.
These were their children:
Janet NIELSON born about 1825 at Ballingry in Fife.
John NIELSON born about 1827 at Ballingry in Fife.
David NIELSON born about 1829 at Ballingry in Fife.
John NIELSON born about 1830 at Lochgelly in Fife.
Mary NIELSON born about 1831 at Ballingry in Fife.
David NIELSON born about 1834 at Lochgelly in Fife.
Robert NIELSON born about 1836 at Lochgelly in Fife.
Thomas NIELSON born 1839 at 1839 at Ballingry in Fife.
Isabell(a) NIELSON born about 1844 at Ballingry in Fife.
In my next posting we shall be taking a look at the parents of Janet NIELSON, M.S. HONEYMAN, the widow of John NIELSON, and their children.
Kind Regards,
Tom.
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tommacgregor
RootsChat Leaver
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1248
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello Again,
To continue with some details about the parents of Janet NIELSON, Maiden Surname: HONEYMAN. Oh, by the way, I notice that I neglected to mention in my previous postings that the Banns of Marriage for John NIELSON and Janet HONEYMAN appear to have been read in the Parishes of Ballingry and Leslie. 17th December, 1852 at Ballingry and 20th January, 1853 at Leslie.
The childen of James NIELSON and Janet BURGESS:
Andrew HONEYMAN born 4th September, 1816 at Leslie in Fife.
Elspeth HONEYMAN born born 7th August, 1818 at Markinch in Fife.
Isobel HONEYMAN born 7th October 1819 at Markinch in Fife.
Agnes HONEYMAN born 7th October, 1821 at Markinch in Fife.
William HONEYMAN born 2nd July, 1824 at Kinglassie in Fife.
Jean HONEYMAN born 15th July, 1827 at Leslie in Fife.
Janet HONEYMAN born 7th July, 1830 at Lelie in Fife.
David HONEYMAN born 10th August, 1834 at Leslie in Fife.
Now I come to that part of the exercise where I was looking for the good old Scots custom of "naming patterns". Have a look at the following and feel free to offer any comments.
John NIELSON and Janet HONEYMAN's children:
Janet NIELSON, the eldest daughter. Was she named after her maternal grandmother, Janet BURGESS?
James NIELSON, their eldest son. Was he named after his paternal grandfather, James NIELSON who married Isabel SHAND?
David NIELSON, second eldest son. Was he named after his maternal grandfather, David HONEYMAN?
John NIELSON, 3rd eldest son. Was he named after his father, John NIELSON?
Isabella NIELSON, 2nd eldest daughter. Was she named after Isabel SHAND?
I always enjoy doing that little exercise, because it gives me the comfort of knowing that I probably have the right individuals in my sights.
If the above information is of any assistance to other researchers, then I will consider it well worth the effort. Please check it for any typing errors or something that I have typed that is obviously incorrect. I would hate like Hell to have some of you believing that it only took me a few minutes to put together. Being elderly and totally disabled for the past 17 years, I assure you it took a bit longer than that!
Kind Regards,
Tom.
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tommacgregor
RootsChat Leaver
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1248
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi!
I return to the Nelson (or Nielson) Line in an effort to push the dates back a bit. You will remember that my Great-Grandmother, Agnes BEVERIDGE was the daughter of Elizabeth NIELSON who had married James BEVERIDGE at Old Monkland in Lanarkshire on the 15th April, 1849.
MonicaLesl and I had taken quite a look at Elizabeth's parents and grandparents, and that was quite an enjoyable experience for me, because Monica demonstrated her skills on genealogy and helped me enormously. We did not examine the parents of James Nielson and his wife, Janet Main nor Alexander Nielson and his wife, Elizabeth Smith. Correct me if I'm wrong, Monica. I would like to learn a bit about S.P., because, quite clearly the site has quite a lot to offer, and I have to admit, my current sources are not delivering quite what I require.
As an example of the difficulties that I'm experiencing, I haven't got the marriage details of James Nielson and Janet Main, although I believe that it would have been somewhere around 1782, going on the birthdate of their first child. If Ann Nielson, b/chr. 6th Apri, 1783 at Muiravonside, Stirlingshire, really was the first child, and naming patterns were used, then, in all probability she would have been named after her grandmother, who, I suspect, was Anne Gilmour. This is what I don't like - the lack of certainty.
I found a birth entry for a James Nielson who was born to Alexander Nielson and Anne Gilmour, i.e. James NIELSON extracted b/chr. record 30th December, 1759 at Bathgate, West Lothian. That can be found on Batch No: C116622 Dates: 1722-1769 SCN: 1066611-0102975. If nothing else, Monica, I am certainly giving plenty of source information, eh?
So, there's the scenario, and I will continue on my next posting.
Best wishes to you and yours,
Tom.
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JAP
RootsChat Leaver
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5079
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... I would like to learn a bit about S.P., because, quite clearly the site has quite a lot to offer, and I have to admit, my current sources are not delivering quite what I require. ...
Hello Tom,
Here are the sorts of suggestions which I always tend to make to new users of ScotlandsPeople.
1. Go to the ScotlandsPeople site at:
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/
and have a look at
*What's in the Database
*Help & Other Resources
*Frequently Asked Questions
and their sub-menus.
This is free; it is not even necessary to register with SP in order to access these sections of the site.
They contain a vast amount of information about what's available and about how the site functions - nobody would remember it all. However, it gives one a really good overview of SP. Plus one gains an awareness of what help/information one can expect to find on the site once one actually comes to use it.
2. Register with ScotlandsPeople (this is free).
Do some practice searches in order to get a feel for the site - all searching is free.
{However, downloading search results (indexes) for BDMs incurs a charge; fortunately downloading search results (indexes) for Wills & Testaments is free}
3. Have a look at the RootsChat thread 'Optimise Scotlandspeople searches' at:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,43916.30.html
4. Buy some credits (minimum purchase is 30 credits for 6GBP) and do some downloads.
{Most of us probably didn't make very good use of our first purchase of credits so it's possibly a good idea for new users not to be too disappointed if they find that they waste a few.}
5. I also tend to point out that downloading OPR entries can be a bit of a lottery - there may well be nothing more in the actual entry than one could have found by using the IGI. Therefore, ordering in the OPR films in to one's local LDS Family History centre may well be a very much cheaper option than SP - especially if one is interested in many entries from a single parish.
JAP
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tommacgregor
RootsChat Leaver
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1248
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello JAP,
I really appreciate your most informative posting about ScotlandsPeople. It was very kind of you, and I think a lot of it. Most of us try to get things right, and at times, I do get a bit "peeved" at the results from some of the sources that I use. A lot of people seem to forget that I have only been on RootsChat for quite a short period of time and I'm not too conversant with many of the tools available. I can still afford to smile about some of the ridiculous comments made about me - especially when I look at some of the early postings of those who are doing the criticising!
Having just spent quite a bit on our Golden Wedding celebrations last weekend, I will have to scrape together a few "bawbees" to have a bash at ScotlandsPeople, which I do understand is quite a good site.
Again, thanks for your kindness.
Tom.
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tommacgregor
RootsChat Leaver
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1248
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Jennifer,
Now look what you've done - got me all excited about this wonderful new toy. Gee! It's been a long time since I bought myself a new toy. Only kidding, of course! I really look forward to improving things so that I can do so much more, which will flow on to other researchers on RootsChat.
My best wishes as always.
Tom.
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tommacgregor
RootsChat Leaver
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1248
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi again JAP,
I printed out details from http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/, popped it into a folder, and then last night had a look at it. Sometimes I make "a tongue-in-cheek" comment such as I know very little about Scotlandspeople, but totally ignore the fact that I was working with Ancestry long before I went on to RootsChat! What I have been doing is comparing these resources, and that was quite interesting.
Over the weekend I shall be doing a few practice Searches, because there is still an awful lot of work for me to do on quite a few branches of my Family Tree. I had put together quite a lot of handwritten notes about The Nielson's, but wasn't completely satisfied with the authenticity of the records. What I'm really interested in is Old Parish Records Birth & Christenings 1553-1854 and Old Parish Records Banns & Marriages 1553-1854. At least I have some details to allow me to do a Search on S.P.
Again, I would thank you for the site details, and when I do start the job in earnest, it should be reflected in the results that I get. That will please me no end, since I will be doing a far better job that can be passed on to other researchers.
Tom.
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