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Topic: Help with JOHN ELLIS please (Read 435 times)
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bedfordshire boy
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 4740
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If you start from what you know and work backwards you're in less danger of researching someone else's tree. How do you know Ellen Finders was the granddaughter of the Ellis couple? What else do you have on their "known" son Edward? Too much information is better than adopting the minimalist approach. (much, much later - just seen the 1881 which is obviously where you got your information from. It would have helped if you'd said they were in Gt Gransden Hunts in 1881!)
There's only one Ellen Flinders birth on FreeBMD c 1840 - June quarter 1841 in Caxton registration district. In 1841 there's only one Ellen Flinders in Cambs - age 5 months living in Eltisley with William and Sobias Flinders. FreeBMD has a marriage of William Flinders and Sobias Wakefield in 1839, so this Ellen doesn't seem to be an Ellis granddaughter. What else do you know about Ellen? (Sebias Wakefield was baptised in Croxton in 1820 so she wasn't a widow on marriage to William)
However there's also an Ellen Flinders aged 3 living in Gt Gransden Hunts with Thomas 24 and Caroline 20 Flinders, and presumably her siblings Mary 5 and John 17m?- I'll do some more research in Hunts and see what I can find ***
Have you looked at the Cambs FHS website at http://www.cfhs.org.uk/Search.html ?
It contains baptism and burial indexes 1801-37, plus census indexes for the 1841-51-61 censuses, which would help you research these names. How sure are you about Edward's and John's birthdates?
David
*** Later. Panic over! Hunts Marriage Index has a marriage in 1836 between Thomas Flinders and Caroline Ellis at Gt Gransden. In 1851 Caroline was 30 and gave her birthplace as Kingston Cambs
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukBeds: Cople: Luke/Spencer Everton: Hale Henlow: Cooper/Watts/Sabey Potton: Merrill Southill: Faulkner/Litchfield/Sabey Woburn/Husborne Crawley: Surkitt Hunts: Gt Gransden: Merrill/Chandler/Medlock Toseland: Surkitt/Hedge/Corn Cambs: Bourn: Bowd Eltisley: Medlock Graveley: Ford/Revell |
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bedfordshire boy
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 4740
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Kingston, Cambs is a mile from Gt Eversden, Cambs, and 5 miles from Gt Gransden, Hunts. If you check the IGI you'll see a Caroline Ellis birth and baptism recorded at the Independent Meeting House, Gt Eversden in 1820. Also at the same church was recorded the birth and baptism of Edward Ellis in 1824, plus five other children. **
The problem is that the parents in each case were John and Sarah Ellis, not Elizabeth. Their first child baptised was in 1816, implying a marriage 1815/6.
How sure are you about Elizabeth being the wife of John? (Edit - she was, but his second wife and not the mother of his children)
In any event you need to check Gt Gransden parish register for the marriage of Caroline, to see if a parish of residence other than Gt Gransden is given, and also to see if the witnesses provide a clue.
In 1841
HO107/ 453/8 folio 11A
South St, Gt Gransden, Hunts
John Ellis 45 farmer
Sarah Ellis 45
Edward Ellis 17 ag lab
Hannah Ellis 13
All except John born in Hunts
What makes you think John was from Caxton? (Edit - just seen the 1881 census)
David
** The baptism index on the Cambs FHS site that I mentioned in my previous post has the added detail for five of the baptisms that the abode of John and Sarah was Gt Gransden. It's beginning to look as though your information about Elizabeth as the wife of John is wrong.
John Ellis married Sarah Rich in Gt Gransden in 1814 (Hunts Marriage Index)
Just found John & Sarah in Gt Gransden in 1851. Forgot that Ellis might have been enumerated as Elliss
HO107/1758 folio 99A
Gt Gransden, Hunts
John Elliss head marr 55 farmer 10 acres employing 2 men born Cambridge
Sarah Elliss wife 58 b Kingston, Cambs
Hannah Elliss dau unmarr 23 b Hunts Gransden
Mary Ann Flinders grand dau 14 scholar b Gransden Hunts
Alice Barley visitor unm 26 milliner b Yaxley Hunts
William Peck visitor unm 22 tailor b Wrestlingworth Beds
Stephen ?insby servant 12 Farm lab b Lt Gransden, Cambs
James Williamson visitor 18 unm Farm lab b Kingston Cambs
The presence of Mary Flinders, grand daughter, who must have been the Mary aged 5 with William and Caroline in 1841, I think closes the loop
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukBeds: Cople: Luke/Spencer Everton: Hale Henlow: Cooper/Watts/Sabey Potton: Merrill Southill: Faulkner/Litchfield/Sabey Woburn/Husborne Crawley: Surkitt Hunts: Gt Gransden: Merrill/Chandler/Medlock Toseland: Surkitt/Hedge/Corn Cambs: Bourn: Bowd Eltisley: Medlock Graveley: Ford/Revell |
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bedfordshire boy
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 4740
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Getting bored with adding amendments, and the second message is getting a bit long, so I'll start a new message!
Just found John in 1861 with what must be a second wife, Elizabeth
RG9/1017 folio 131B
Cottage, Gt Gransden]
John Ellis head marr 65 ag lab b Cambridge Cambridgeshire
Elizabeth Ellis wife 56 b Lt Gransden Cambs
Frederick Beard son in law 16 b Lt Gransden
(son in law also meant stepson)
1871
RG10/1575 folio 14B
Gt Gransden
John Ellis head marr 75 farmer 2 acres b Cambridge (borough)
Elizabeth Ellis wife 66 b Lt Gransden Cambs
With John giving his birthplace as Cambridge in three consecutive censuses it shoots down my original thought that he might have been the John Ellis baptised 22 March 1795, son of William and Elizabeth at Bourn, Cambs, which is only a couple of miles across the fields from Gt Gransden, Hunts. (Edit - the 1881 birthplace of Caxton puts a bit of a spanner in the works! Caxton and Bourn are within spitting distance of each other, but why would he have given a very specific Cambridge (borough) in 1871?
FreeBMD has a death of a Sarah Ellis in Caxton registration district in Dec 1852, and a marriage in Bethnal Green in Dec 1860 where two of the four parties on the page are John Ellis and Elizabeth Beard
David
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukBeds: Cople: Luke/Spencer Everton: Hale Henlow: Cooper/Watts/Sabey Potton: Merrill Southill: Faulkner/Litchfield/Sabey Woburn/Husborne Crawley: Surkitt Hunts: Gt Gransden: Merrill/Chandler/Medlock Toseland: Surkitt/Hedge/Corn Cambs: Bourn: Bowd Eltisley: Medlock Graveley: Ford/Revell |
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bedfordshire boy
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 4740
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Edward's mother was Sarah. Elizabeth was John's second late in life marriage.
As I said about John, the only reference to Caxton being his birthplace was in 1881 when he was 85. The three prior censuses all gave Cambridge.
Wade through what I found, and compare it with what your rellie has, and then if you have any queries let me know
Regards
David
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukBeds: Cople: Luke/Spencer Everton: Hale Henlow: Cooper/Watts/Sabey Potton: Merrill Southill: Faulkner/Litchfield/Sabey Woburn/Husborne Crawley: Surkitt Hunts: Gt Gransden: Merrill/Chandler/Medlock Toseland: Surkitt/Hedge/Corn Cambs: Bourn: Bowd Eltisley: Medlock Graveley: Ford/Revell |
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Caseyfnz
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 12
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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A Caroline Ellis married Thomas Flinders 15/Apr/1836 at Great Gransden, so I expect her father was the John Ellis mentioned.
Caroline and Thomas both died as a result of TB on 2/Jan/1856.
In total they had 8 children including the Ellen you mention.
Keith Flinders, Wellington, NZ
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