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Topic: IRVINE, William, Robert and Andrew (Read 398 times)
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ev
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1143
TIA after her op. (clothes by "NIKKI")
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hi jim
william irvine's death cert should confirm his father
i think it's 1876 brechin
if it's robert then there is a very good chance the 1808
birth is his
try FREECEN and HUGHWALLIS sites to find 1841 census and all irvines born
to a robert in menmuir on the igi
there is a robert irvine born c1763 in menmuir in 1841 and think william is on it
too(wife isabel ?)
monifieth library has access to parish records but not too sure if they have
menmuir
ev
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« Last Edit: Monday 28 January 08 20:53 GMT (UK) by ev »
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ev
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jim
is that isabella aitken that was williams wife ?
IGI has william irvine & isabella aitken married 23 september 1836
st. vigeans(arbroath) angus
kids robert, william, martha, matilda, charles, helen, george , and annie ?
labourer was occupation on census returns
ev
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Rowana
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Posts: 119
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Isles,
I can see it now, thanks. Looks like we will never know who William's mother was.
ev,
This brings up even more questions!
On Helen's birth entry, her parents marriage is given as August 1836 in Menmuir. It also says that she is the 7th Child, 3 boys and 2 girls still living, one girl died. Her Mother is given as Isabella Aiken (no "T"), born in Careston. (see attachment)
I'm not bothered about the Aitken/Aiken, as spellings quite often varied a bit back then, but St Vigeans is a bit strange and doesn't ring true somehow. However, the 5 earlier children does ring true!
Ah well, more digging for me, I think!
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Irvine Gove Watt Stronner
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Rowana
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 119
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I've now got a copy of the marriage record from St Vigeans. Fot the 26 Sept 1836, it reads -
"William Irvine of this parish and Isabel Aitken of the parish of Stracathro were married"
Does this mean that William was born in St Vigeans, or was he just living there at the time of his Marriage?
If so why is Isabel shown as being from Stracathro?
Isabel's place of birth is shown as Careston on Helen's birth entry, so is it possible, or even probable, that William & Isabel met in the Careston or Menmuir area, then William moved to St Vigeans to work, and Isabel moved to Stracathro, and they got married in St Vigeans?
Do you think this is a reasonable supposition?
But then, why is it that on Helen's birth entry, her parents marriage is given as August 1836 in Menmuir? Surely her father, who registered the birth, knew where he got married?
The more I dig, the more questions I seem to find !
Is it always like this?
Cheers
Jim
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Irvine Gove Watt Stronner
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ev
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1143
TIA after her op. (clothes by "NIKKI")
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jim
checking on the hughwallis site seems to show that there are no marriage
records on the igi for menmuir at that time
don't know the reason for this as the births seem complete
the st. vigeans marriage might not be yours but i'd hold on to the
information until you are sure it's not
did you see the entry on igi for isobel aiken christened 21st april 1816
careston angus - that seems to tie up with what you know , isabell being
age 25 on the 1841 census and 36 born careston on the 1851
father john aiken mother elisabeth stewart
ev
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Rowana
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Posts: 119
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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What a frustrating day 
I thought that if I found the birth records for another couple of William & Isobel's children, it might say where their parents marriage took place.
First I found George's birth entry in 1857 in Menmuir, and although the parents are correct, it doesn't even mention where or when they were married.
Next I went for Ann, recorded on the 1861 census as being 1 year old. The family were living in Brechin by now. Found an Ann Irvine, born in Brechin in 1860 to a William Irvine, but the mother is given as Janet Irvine, maiden name, McEwan. Not only that, it says in the margin that the birth took place in Aberlour in the county of Banff! By now completely confused, I looked up the births for Aberlour, and guess what I found? Another record with the same details. See the image below. The top one is from Brechin, and the lower one from Aberlour! Seems Ann was registered twice!
Anyway, I finally managed to find that I'd been looking at the wrong people! "My" Ann was born in Menmuir in 1859, but it STILL doesn't give a place for the marriage of William and Isobel.
I think I'll go and have a beer!
Cheers
Jim
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 Ann_2.jpg (277.72 KB, 1000x582 - viewed 45 times.)
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Irvine Gove Watt Stronner
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ev
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1143
TIA after her op. (clothes by "NIKKI")
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jim
i'm sorry that i may seem to be smug 
i'm only trying to help
yours
ev
ps about the st vigeans marriage it might not be correct
but keep it in mind
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MonicaLesl
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Posts: 4568
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Hi Jim
I believe they didn't start to include details of parents' marriage on birth certs until the 1860s (1861?). If Annie was their last child born in 1859.....
Regards.
Monica 
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire.
Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll.
Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire.
Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan.
McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland.
Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland.
..........and lots of Spanish name interests........
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Rowana
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 119
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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To ev -
I didn't think you were smug at all, and many, many, thanks for all your help.
I was probably more cross at myself for wasting a whole day chasing down the wrong road.
I'm extremely sorry if you picked me up wrong. Sometimes what I write does not convey my feelings, and if Iv'e given the wrong impression, I apologise.
Just to add a wee bit that I've found out today - There is a record of Robert, William & Isobel's eldest son, being christened on 4 Dec 1836 in Stracathro, so perhaps the St Vigeans marriage IS correct after all, as it says Isobel is from Stracathro.
Will I ever know for sure, I ask myself.
Thanks again,
Cheers
Jim
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Irvine Gove Watt Stronner
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