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Topic: Mystery: HARRIS - Shoemaker - Ipswich (Read 247 times)
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GJH
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 6
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I would be very grateful if anybody could suggest the next step in my search for my husband's ancestors. I have hit a dead end and, despite searching all the online censuses, and birth records covering eight years, I cannot get any further back than a marriage certificate for 1896.
I suspect the groom used the wrong name or age or father's name (or all three) for whatever reason so, although I can trace the bride and her family right back, there is no trace of the groom or his father prior to that date.
This is what I have:
Marriage certificate for Joseph Christopher Harris dated 20/09/1896 to Agnes Maud Higham in the Parish Church of St Matthew, Ipswich. He gives his age as 24, making him born c1872, his profession as Shoe-maker, and his father's name as Christopher, a Shoe-finisher.
1901 census entry giving his age as 28, birthplace Ipswich, profession Boot & Shoe finisher, living at 6 Rope Walk Place with his wife Agnes and son Christopher John Harris (born 1896 at 5 Barrack Lane). He later had another son, Edward Robert, born 1903.
We have discussed visiting Ipswich to further our search but don't know whether it would achieve anything if we don't know where to look. Any suggestions at all would be very welcome.
Many thanks for reading,
Gill
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Rick
Moderator
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Posts: 3826
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Welcome Gill!
I hope that you will visit us often and make lots of progress with your research! Please be sure to register your surnames on our SURNAME INTERESTS TABLE.
http://surname.rootschat.com/
As your query is a very general and possibly involved query, I am going to move it to the GENERAL board for you.
Kind Regards
Rick 
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AMBLY
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 2984
Falkland Islands "Desire The Right"
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Hi Gill
Welcome from me too 
A nice mystery ! I don't know - but I feel sure there will something to do with this lot? 2 families , or one family with this Christopher marrying twice - something.....
I wonder if your chap Joseph Christopher had another first name he didn't use....What was his address on the marriage, and who were the marriage witness'? Was the ffather of either bride or groom listed as deceased?
1871: St John de Sepulchre, Norwich, Norfolk
Ref: RG10; Piece: 1814 / Folio: 80 / pg 20
Address: Bennetts Yard
Head: Christopher HARRIS 35, Shoe Finisher
Wife: Rachel HARRIS 35,
Son: Clare HARRIS 13, Shoe maker
Dau: Maria HARRIS 6, Scholar,
Son: Bela HARRIS 3, (approx a month shy of turning 4)
Son: Albert HARRIS 1,
ALL state born Norwich
IGI extracted record: Christopher HARRIS age 20 married Rachel SMITH age 21, on 12 Nov 1854 Saint John De Sepulchre, Norwich, Norfolk.
His father wsas James HARRIS. Her father was Clare SMITH.
IGI extracted birth/baptisms to Christopher & Rachel:
Son Clare is: James Clare Thomas HARRIS
Son: Bela is: Bailey Christopher HARRIS b May 1867 - possibly his death is Dec Qtr 1871 aged 5
There also seems to have been a daughter, Rachel Maria HARRIS born and died 1855 (on IGI too)
1881: St Mary Elms, Ipswich, Suffolk
RG11 / Piece: 1872 / Folio: 71 / Pg 21
Address; 5 Maples Court
Head; Christopher HARRIS 44, Shoe Maker, b Cambridge
Wife: Harriet HARRIS 44, b Saxlingham, Norfolk
Son: Albert HARRIS 13, b Norwich
Dau: Marie HARRIS 8, b Norwich
Appears there should be a 4 year old son Alfred, who is misssing from 1881.....
1891: St Matthew Ipswich*, Suffolk
Ref: RG12 / Piece: 1466 / Folio 61 / pg 24
Address: 8 Stirling Street
Head: Christopher HARRIS 53, Shoemaker, b Cambridge, Cambs
Wife: Harriett HARRIS 54, b Norwich, Norfolk
Son: Albert HARRIS 23, Shoemaker, b Norwich, Norfolk
Dau: Maria HARRIS 19, unm, Stay Maker (Dress) b Norwich, Norfolk
Son; Alfred 14, Shoemakers Assistant, b Ipswich Suffolk
*Noting your Joseph Christopher married in St Matthew Ipswich......
Cheers
AMBLY
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« Last Edit: Tuesday 29 January 08 05:04 GMT (UK) by AMBLY »
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AMBLY
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 2984
Falkland Islands "Desire The Right"
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Hmmmmmm
Ok,,,,
So Rachel HARRIS of the 1871 is here in all the other Census:
1861: St John de Sepulchre, Norwich, Norfolk
Ref: RG9 / Piece: 1215 / Folio: 110 / Page: 38
Address: Bergsheet??
Head: Christopher HARRIS 26, Shoemaker
Wife: Racheal HARRIS 27,
Son: Clare HARRIS 3,
ALL born Norwich
1881: Mountergate, Norwich, Norfolk (Conisford area)
Ref:RG11/ Piece: 1942/ Folio: 77; Page / 25
Address: Thorn Lane - Lodger
Head: Rachel HARRIS 45,
Dau: Maria HARRIS 18, Box Maker,
Son: Barkeley?? HARRIS 6
Robert HARRIS 4,
ALL state born Norwich
Looks like they are lodging (as a seperate headed family) in household of a family named HOLMES
1891: Mountergate, Norwich, Norfolk (Conisford area)
Ref: RG12 / Piece / 1523 / Folio 64; / Page 1
Address: Steam Packer Lane (just before Stepping Lane - Howards Buildings)
Head: Rachel HARRIS 54, Char Woman
Son: Robert HARRIS 14. Boot Finisher
Lodger: Mary Annie FARMAN 23, marr,
ALL state born Norwich
1901: St Peter Mountergate, Norwich, Norfolk (East Wymer area)
Ref: RG13 / Piece: 1840 / Folio: 69; Pg 26
Address: Stepping Lane (near Howards Buildings)
Head: Rachel HARRIS 65, widow, Char Woman, b Norfolk
(on her own)
So, Rachel's husband Christopher stops being at home for the 1881, 1891 and appears to have died by the 1901. That she is working as a Charwoman in 1891, suggests she is not being supported by her husband.....
Where is Rachel's husband Christopher in 1881 and 1891?
Possible Death for Rachel HARRIS - Jun Qtr 1905 Norwich age 71.
Where is Harriet's husband Christopher in 1871, and when did they marry.........if they did?
Cannot find Harriet or Christopher on 1901 - but a possible death for her:
Harriet HARRIS - Mar Qtr 1893 Ipswich age 56
Can't find a death for Christopher after 1891?
If your Joseph CHristopher's father is this Christopher HARRIS b abt 1836 in Cambs. or Norwich - then.....wavering ages for children taken into account:
1) we might be looking for your Joseph CHristopher (JC) registered under the maiden name or former married name of Harriet.......and poss he has more names besises JC
2) JC could therefore be Alfred who may have been born to Harriet at the same approx. time as Rachel was giving birth to Robert?? Or could JC be Albert, b abt 1868 - both whom appear with Harriet on Census'.
3) Is Robert age 4 in 1881 with Rachel the same boy named as Alfred age 14 in 1891 with Harriet? And therefore your Joseph Christopher's mother icould be Rachel?
4) Is he Rachel's other son: named on Census as Barkeley?
5) Is Albert age 1 in 1871 with Rachel, the same Albert age 13 in 1881 with Christopher and Harriet?
or 6) does JC belong to this family, is not one of the above and poss has another forename name he did not use.....and he is never with them on the Census
7) Two Maria's born 10 years apart. Is the one with Harriet in 1891/1891 her daughter from a previous marriage or relationship?
or 8 ) I'm barking in the wrong forest
My money is on your Joseph Christopher being "Barkeley"..............maybe 
Cheers
AMBLY
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« Last Edit: Tuesday 29 January 08 09:37 GMT (UK) by AMBLY »
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GJH
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 6
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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AMBLY...I am amazed!!
Both at the amount of information you have put together and the way you have interpreted it. Thank you so much.
I had touched on some of the people in your reply in the course of my search, but couldn't make any of them fit what I had. You must have a talent for lateral thinking! (or a devious mind?).
As regards the marriage certificate - the residence is just given as St Matthew for both parties, no address. Neither father is shown as deceased. The witnesses were Henry Sayer and Ellen Sayer. I looked them up in the hope that I might find Joseph Christopher in the same street but I only found another possible instance of being economical with the truth. I found a Henry J Sayer living in the right area who married an Ellen Elizabeth Parker in Oct-Dec 1896. However, as Joseph Christopher and Agnes married in September 1896, that Henry and Ellen wouldn't have yet been both Sayer. Maybe it's a red herring - and it didn't get me anywhere anyway.
Once again, thank you very much for your time and trouble. I am going to have a long hard look at your information and try to find the answers.
Regards,
Gill
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suffolk*sue
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 4520
Catherine Sandys, I will find out where you went.
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Possible marriage
Christopher Harris
1868
Mar qtr.
District: Norwich
County: Norfolk
Volume: 4b
Page: 278
Possible bride
Harriet Chapman
================
or
Christopher Harris
1869
Sep qtr.
District: Norwich
County: Norfolk
Volume: 4b
Page: 279
Harriet Godfrey
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willow154
RootsChat Aristocrat
 Online
Posts: 1430
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Gill,
As I'm not familiar with shoemaker's apprenticeships this may not apply; but it might be worth you ringing Suffolk archives to see if they have an apprenticeship index, or burgess index.
I used these in the Nottinghamshire archives to trace my family, who were framework knitters; but they had other trades in there as well. They gave details of who the apprenticeship was served with, when, and sometimes father's name.
I looked for Joseph in the 1900 dirctory for Suffolk - tried address, name and occupation but could not find him;
www.historicaldirectories.org
Of course, all this will be difficult if his name is not correct.
Anyway, just a thought - good luck,
Paulene
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