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Topic: Was the Rockhill, South Carolina benefactor a Kiwi? (Read 1223 times)
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KiwiRose
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Posts: 56
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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Thank you Ohio Susan and LissaM, my curiosity is fully satisfied about the article.
If she is NZ Lillian then the reporter got the facts wrong regarding her father and the title, the family are in for a huge surprise or Lillian had a good imagination.
Now how could this daughter of a 'Count' avoid all the census whilst living in the USA? The lack of census details makes researching Lillian as difficult as Irish research.
Kind regards
KiwiRose.
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Ireland:
County Antrim: Carrickfergus District: Irwin, McAllister, McNeil, Moore.
County Clare: Barrett.
USA:
Washington State: Moore, Hoyt, Sinclair, Johnson.
California: De Curtoni.
New Zealand: De Cartoni, Lofquist, Harding.
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LissaM
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 877
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Dear KiwiRose, indeed perplexing! And both sisters with such camouflaged lives!
Just some bits and pieces that maybe someday will be of help.
http://www.chmuseums.org/exhibits_collections/exhibits/medical/md_physicians.htm
go down to blurb on Dr. William Wallace Fennell (1869-1926)
Dr. Fennell leased the hospital -- Fennell Infirmary, Rock Hill --- to his assistant Dr. W.B. Ward in 1926. Dr. Fennell died shortly thereafter. Dr. Ward sold the hospital in 1935 and the name was changed to St. Philips Hospital. When you hover over the photo of the women it says possibly the 1919 Nursing Class at the Fennell Infirmary.
Dr. Ward (with family) is in the 1930 -- he is a surgeon at hospital. Living on Confederate Ave, Rock Hill, Catawba Township.
And lastly, on speculation, if she was living with Franciscan Sisters, was cloistered and sheltered from the census by them....however that doesn't answer where she is in 1930 and earlier as the Sisters didn't arrive in Rock HIll until 1935! Not seeing another order or convent in 1930 in Rock Hill but suppose she could have been in another town??
lissa
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KathMc
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 2560
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Did she become a nun do you think? I have many many nuns in my family and on I never would find them on any census records unless I know there religious names. I have a Susan who was Sr. Suzanne (no big change) but an Aunt Sue who was Sr. Mary William, and a Mary Margaret Murphy who became Sr. Mary Olivia and an Ann Cecelia who became Sr. Joseph Loretto. Need I go on, because I can. I think your best start is to try contacting the library or the religious order there. Religious orders can be incredibly helpful. I can't tell you the incredible information they have given me.
Kath
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Sligo: Davey (also Mayo), McCluskey, McNulty
Wexford and Staffordshire: Hayes, McClean
Galway and Staffordshire: Scott
Coventry: Wells, Collins, Palmer, Moody, Beck, Mickelwright, Husbands
Ireland: McNulty (Sligo), Kealy, Murphy (Carlow) Connolly, Gillen, Powell, Ryan, Moore, Martin
Davis from I don't know where originally
Stahl, Russia to England to USA
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KiwiRose
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 56
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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Hello LissaM.
You always come up with interesting information.
I have just sent off an email to the newman link. I hope that that will give me some answers.
Hello KathMc.
If Lillian was a nun, that could explain why she can't be found in any census under her own name. Do you know what would happen about the religious name if a nun left her order? Would she keep that name, or a part of it?
Tomorrow I'll see if I can get in contact with the Rock Hill Library.
Kind regards
KiwiRose.
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Ireland:
County Antrim: Carrickfergus District: Irwin, McAllister, McNeil, Moore.
County Clare: Barrett.
USA:
Washington State: Moore, Hoyt, Sinclair, Johnson.
California: De Curtoni.
New Zealand: De Cartoni, Lofquist, Harding.
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KathMc
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 2560
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I guess they could do whatever they wanted, but most probably take back their birth names.
Kath
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Sligo: Davey (also Mayo), McCluskey, McNulty
Wexford and Staffordshire: Hayes, McClean
Galway and Staffordshire: Scott
Coventry: Wells, Collins, Palmer, Moody, Beck, Mickelwright, Husbands
Ireland: McNulty (Sligo), Kealy, Murphy (Carlow) Connolly, Gillen, Powell, Ryan, Moore, Martin
Davis from I don't know where originally
Stahl, Russia to England to USA
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LissaM
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 877
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi KiwiRose and KathMc,
I have little (none!!) knowledge on this subject but I think it may depends on the tradition of the order. Some take a religious name when they take their final vows, and some keep their baptismal names. It was common to take the names of male saints, i.e. Sister Benedict or Sister Mary Francis (i.e before Vatican II). Maybe they were not given a choice but were assigned a name when they joined the order?
In modern life, Nuns can live in groups or independently, drive to "work", dress as they please, etc. However, I think Sisters wear the traditional or modernized habit of their order, live primarily cloistered in convents and only do the work which is the mission of the order.
In the time frame we are looking for Lillian in, found a large convent in Charlotte of Sisters all beginning with Sister Mary xxxx . There were various designates such as Sister, Assistant or nothing which may have indicated their status as novices or may have been the enumerator's choice of language. Alas, none of them had a birthplace of New Zealand which would be the unique criteria for identifying Lillian.
Guessing here, but if they had taken final vows and then leave the order, they would have to give up their religious name. If their Sister" name was their own baptismal name maybe not 
I was wondering if Lillian just lived with the Sisters for some reason but not as a member of the order. I'm not sure what the Oratory tradition for Sisters is...they may have/had a different tradition.
Of course, bottom line, we still don't know for sure that this Lillian in SC is the same Lillian who came from NZ to SF in 1902 with sister Elizabeth/Josephine!!
Good luck with the inquiry you've sent to the Oratory!! Fingers crossed that will provide all answers!
Regards,
Lissa
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KiwiRose
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 56
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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Hello LissaM,
Once again you have been a great help.
The nun explanation and a religious name makes sense as the reason a seemingly respectable woman hasn't been found in any census. Maybe she left her order after the 1930 census.
My Lillian was born a Catholic and brought up from the age of seven in a Catholic run orphanage. (As was her sister Elizabeth/Josephine) If the SC Lillian is NZ Lillian I have no idea how she could have come by such a large sum of money. The money is the only reason that makes me doubt that I could finally have found my Lillian. Everything else kind of fits.
I can't wait to hear back from the Oratory. Mind you if it turns out not to be NZ Lillian, I am back to square one.
Kind regards,
KiwiRose.
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Ireland:
County Antrim: Carrickfergus District: Irwin, McAllister, McNeil, Moore.
County Clare: Barrett.
USA:
Washington State: Moore, Hoyt, Sinclair, Johnson.
California: De Curtoni.
New Zealand: De Cartoni, Lofquist, Harding.
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KathMc
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 2560
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I for one am very anxious to see what you find out. What a mystery. And what a coincidence if there are 2 women with that name. With the wonderful world of cyber space, hopefully you'll hear back soon.
Kath
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Sligo: Davey (also Mayo), McCluskey, McNulty
Wexford and Staffordshire: Hayes, McClean
Galway and Staffordshire: Scott
Coventry: Wells, Collins, Palmer, Moody, Beck, Mickelwright, Husbands
Ireland: McNulty (Sligo), Kealy, Murphy (Carlow) Connolly, Gillen, Powell, Ryan, Moore, Martin
Davis from I don't know where originally
Stahl, Russia to England to USA
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KiwiRose
RootsChat Extra
Offline
Posts: 56
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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KathMc, you can be sure that I will let you know what I find out from the Oratorians. If I didn't it would be like someone tearing pages out of a book you are reading.
Kind regards,
KiwiRose.
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Logged
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Ireland:
County Antrim: Carrickfergus District: Irwin, McAllister, McNeil, Moore.
County Clare: Barrett.
USA:
Washington State: Moore, Hoyt, Sinclair, Johnson.
California: De Curtoni.
New Zealand: De Cartoni, Lofquist, Harding.
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KathMc
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 2560
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Absolutely.  I am always disappointed when people stop with the communication on here. I love to find out what happened.
Kath
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Logged
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Sligo: Davey (also Mayo), McCluskey, McNulty
Wexford and Staffordshire: Hayes, McClean
Galway and Staffordshire: Scott
Coventry: Wells, Collins, Palmer, Moody, Beck, Mickelwright, Husbands
Ireland: McNulty (Sligo), Kealy, Murphy (Carlow) Connolly, Gillen, Powell, Ryan, Moore, Martin
Davis from I don't know where originally
Stahl, Russia to England to USA
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LissaM
RootsChat Veteran
Offline
Posts: 877
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Me as well!!! Sometimes I've even been tempted to ask WHAT HAPPENED?? but figured that might be overstepping a bit! 
lissa
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dollylee
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 581
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I have just read this thread for the first time today and I am hooked and also dying to hear how this works out.
What an interesting thread !
dollylee
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KiwiRose
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 56
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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As yet I have not heard anything back from the newman link email. I do hope no news is good news and that the email isn't lost in the system or deleted. Maybe I should have written directly to the postal address of the Oratorian.
Dollylee,
The De Curtoni sisters are quite a mystery once they arrived separately in San Francisco. Lillian's youngest sister, Elizabeth/Josephine, referred to in some of the posts has her own thread, Federal Census and Single Nurses, if you are interested.
Regards
KiwiRose
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Logged
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Ireland:
County Antrim: Carrickfergus District: Irwin, McAllister, McNeil, Moore.
County Clare: Barrett.
USA:
Washington State: Moore, Hoyt, Sinclair, Johnson.
California: De Curtoni.
New Zealand: De Cartoni, Lofquist, Harding.
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LissaM
RootsChat Veteran
Offline
Posts: 877
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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KiwiRose, sorry to hear no response yet 
Maybe you should send your inquiry again, with a polite little note, of course .......as to maybe they overlooked seeing it originally. I would!!
This is important business and I can't imagine what they might be up to which would more important than this LOL
lissa
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KathMc
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 2560
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I couldn't agree with Lissa more!  Send it again. They will probably apologize for overlooking it and get back to you quickly. Don't they know there are people all around the world waiting for this answer?
Kath
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Logged
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Sligo: Davey (also Mayo), McCluskey, McNulty
Wexford and Staffordshire: Hayes, McClean
Galway and Staffordshire: Scott
Coventry: Wells, Collins, Palmer, Moody, Beck, Mickelwright, Husbands
Ireland: McNulty (Sligo), Kealy, Murphy (Carlow) Connolly, Gillen, Powell, Ryan, Moore, Martin
Davis from I don't know where originally
Stahl, Russia to England to USA
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