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Topic: Issues with Lamb family research - COMPLETED (Read 2088 times)
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TunjiLees
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Dr. Oladipo James Olaore
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Hello, I am trying to research and and clarify some information on a series of my ancestors from the Lamb family in Angus.
Some of the information was gathered and discussed in http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,282753.0.html
The data I have:
John Lamb + Helen Siddie
=
-Marjory Lamb - b. Abt 1807 Newtyle, Angus, Scotland - m. 29 Nov 1832 Newtyle, Angus, Scotland
+ Mat(t)hew Mcdonald, (possibly: b. 24 Dec 1789, Cleish, Kinross, Scotland)
-James Lamb - c. 1 Aug 1809 Newtyle, Angus, Scotland
-McPherson Cunningham Lamb - b. Abt 1816 Newtyle, Angus, Scotland
+Elizabeth Robertson (b. Abt 1820) - m. 25 Jul 1841, Newtyle, Angus, Scotland
My issues:
-I cannot find any record of a John Lamb + Helen Siddie, or any record of Helen Siddie.
-John Lamb was 88 and in Newtyle for the 1851 census, the only possibility I find for that person in Angus would be John Lamb, c. 11 Dec 1763 Arbroath, Angus, Scotland, son of James Lamb & Elizabeth Sinclair m. 12 Jul 1758). Is this definitely correct?
-Did John Lamb truly father his first child at 44 (Marjory Lamb), and his last at 53 (McPherson Lamb)? Could he have married late or perhaps she was his second wife?
Thanks and regards.
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« Last Edit: Sunday 10 February 08 21:18 GMT (UK) by TunjiLees »
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breaky
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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(Haven't checked further for any children),
but a "Scottish Origins" search brings up this marriage -
19.02.1804
John Lamb to Helen Seydie
at Kettins, Angus.
Worth a look?
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TunjiLees
RootsChat Senior
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Dr. Oladipo James Olaore
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There's another issue which I have just come across.
Isles and PrueM found this for the census of 1851:
1851 census:
John LAMB Head Widower 88 Recipient of Parish Relief, formerly Ag Lab. b. Forfarshire
Marjory MCDONALD Daughter Widow 43 Yarn Winder. b. Forfarshire, Newtyle
James MCDONALD Grandson -- 16 Apprentice shoemaker. b. Forfarshire, Newtyle
David McDonald 11
Address: Newbigging, Newtyle
However, the ages do not match with those of the 1841 census off FreeCEN:
1841 census:
LAMB John M 70 Kirk Officer Angus
LAMB Margory F 30 Angus
LAMB Mcpherson M 25 Linen Hand Loom Weaver Angus
MCDONALD Helen F 8 Angus
MCDONALD James M 6 Angus
MCDONALD John M 4 Angus
MCDONALD David M 1 Angus
ROSS Alexander M 6 Angus
Address: Newbigging
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breaky
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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John Lamb and Helen Seydie - At Kettins (Scotland's People) - Births 17.3.1805 Thomas; 1.6.1806 Ann
At Kettins (Scottish Origins) - Births of Ann and Thomas plus, 1.3.1804 Agathia (this spelling).
John Lamb and Helen Siddie - At Newtyle (Scotland"s People) - Births 1.8.1809 James Lamb;
8.10.1815 McPher Cunnigh Lamb
(The weird "McPher Cunnigh Lamb" spelling I found on Hugh Wallis's Genealogy website, but it is also the same spelling given on Scotland's People), but you've probably found this out already?
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TunjiLees
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Dr. Oladipo James Olaore
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Interesting breaky thank you.
I only knew of Marjory Lamb, James Lamb and McPherson Lamb.
You didn't find a record of Marjory Lamb? I didn't either.
Are Helen Seydie and Siddie definitely the same people? Could there be even additional spellings?
McPher Cunnigh Lamb is McPherson Cunningham Lamb I believe.
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PrueM
RootsChat Moderator
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Having looked again at John LAMB's birthplace on the 1851 census, I think it says "Forfarshire, Kerriemuir" - which I assume is Kirriemuir.
Cheers
Prue
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Paper and Photograph Conservator
I live in NSW, and am researching:
BALFOUR (Derry) BIGG (Kent) BONSALL (DBY, NTT, CHS) BRISBANE (Fife) DANKS (STS) DOBSON (BRK) FRANCIS (ESS) GOODE (HAM) HAYNES (Cork) INGRAM (MDX, SOM) LANGWORTHY (Jersey, DEV) MCKAY (Fife, Aberdeen, Banff, Moray, Inverness) MORRISH (LND) NANCARROW (CON) OGILVIE (Moray, LND) STRATHDEE (Banff) SWAN (Fife) WOOD (LND)
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TunjiLees
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Dr. Oladipo James Olaore
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So he was born in Kirriemuir. Thank you, that helps. However for the period during which he could have been born, there are four 'John Lamb's listed.
The conflicting censuses are really bugging me...
1851 census - 88 years old = 1763/1764 birth
1841 census - 70 years old = 1771/1772 birth
Perhaps the second 8 in '88' was in fact a 0? That would account for the discrepancy.
Anyhow, none of the four 'John Lamb's listed were born during either of those periods...
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PrueM
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Don't worry too much about the ages in the census, as long as the names and birthplaces match up. People often guessed at their age, or the ages could have been written down/enumerated incorrectly at the time they were taken, so mistakes may have happened.
What are the John LAMB baptisms/births that you've found? Years and places...we might be able to narrow it down a bit for you.
Cheers
Prue
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Paper and Photograph Conservator
I live in NSW, and am researching:
BALFOUR (Derry) BIGG (Kent) BONSALL (DBY, NTT, CHS) BRISBANE (Fife) DANKS (STS) DOBSON (BRK) FRANCIS (ESS) GOODE (HAM) HAYNES (Cork) INGRAM (MDX, SOM) LANGWORTHY (Jersey, DEV) MCKAY (Fife, Aberdeen, Banff, Moray, Inverness) MORRISH (LND) NANCARROW (CON) OGILVIE (Moray, LND) STRATHDEE (Banff) SWAN (Fife) WOOD (LND)
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TunjiLees
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Dr. Oladipo James Olaore
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Thanks for clearing that up, I wasn't sure how literally the census information should be taken.
I did a find on FamilySearch for a John Lamb born in Kirriemuir during the possible period:
JOHN LAMB
Gender: Male Christening: About 16 FEB 1766 Kirriemuir, Angus, Scotland
JOHN LAMB
Gender: Male Christening: About 10 APR 1768 Kirriemuir, Angus, Scotland
JOHN LAMB
Gender: Male Christening: About 13 OCT 1768 Kirriemuir, Angus, Scotland
JOHN LAMB
Gender: Male Christening: About 01 MAR 1773 Kirriemuir, Angus, Scotland
Here is also the John Lamb from Arbroath I thought it might have been, seeing as that is where my John Lamb got married: but I guess that it's wrong because Arbroath doesn't look at all similar to Kirriemuir.
JOHN LAMB
Gender: Male Christening: 11 DEC 1763 Arbroath, Angus, Scotland
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PrueM
RootsChat Moderator
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If he married in Arbroath it could have been because his wife came from there - often marriages were in the bride's home parish.
Anyway, I see what you mean about all the possibilities! I will have to look properly once I'm home (am at work at the mo) and hopefully soemone else will come on in the meantime and see if they can help.
Prue
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Paper and Photograph Conservator
I live in NSW, and am researching:
BALFOUR (Derry) BIGG (Kent) BONSALL (DBY, NTT, CHS) BRISBANE (Fife) DANKS (STS) DOBSON (BRK) FRANCIS (ESS) GOODE (HAM) HAYNES (Cork) INGRAM (MDX, SOM) LANGWORTHY (Jersey, DEV) MCKAY (Fife, Aberdeen, Banff, Moray, Inverness) MORRISH (LND) NANCARROW (CON) OGILVIE (Moray, LND) STRATHDEE (Banff) SWAN (Fife) WOOD (LND)
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TunjiLees
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Dr. Oladipo James Olaore
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Good, thank you.
Something else entirely that I was wondering is who
ROSS Alexander M 6 Angus
from the 1841 census, in the same household as John Lamb, could be.
He certainly seems too young to be a servant.
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PrueM
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I wondered that too...a grandchild, maybe? Annoying that relationships are not shown on the 1841.
Could be another child of Marjory's, or one of her siblings' children, perhaps.
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Paper and Photograph Conservator
I live in NSW, and am researching:
BALFOUR (Derry) BIGG (Kent) BONSALL (DBY, NTT, CHS) BRISBANE (Fife) DANKS (STS) DOBSON (BRK) FRANCIS (ESS) GOODE (HAM) HAYNES (Cork) INGRAM (MDX, SOM) LANGWORTHY (Jersey, DEV) MCKAY (Fife, Aberdeen, Banff, Moray, Inverness) MORRISH (LND) NANCARROW (CON) OGILVIE (Moray, LND) STRATHDEE (Banff) SWAN (Fife) WOOD (LND)
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TunjiLees
RootsChat Senior
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Dr. Oladipo James Olaore
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I found something interesting:
ALEXANDER ROSS Male 11 JAN 1835 Meigle, Perth, Scotland
Father: ALEXANDER ROSS Family
Mother: HELEN LAMB
Could be nothing, but it certainly is interesting. The only other Alexander Ross in the whole of Scotland of a mother 'X Lamb', is born 60 years later so it is definately not that one.
This Alexander Ross however, is born in 1835, meaning he would be 6 in the 1841 census.
Then again, it could just be an unlikely coincidence.
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breaky
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Ancestry has Alexander Ross in 1871 at Newtyle, a Plate Layer - a lot of the family seem to have worked on the railways - wife, Jacobina, born Meigle, children Alexander, 10, born Meigle, William , 7, born Washington, Meigle; Isabella, 5, and Mary, 2, both born Washington.
Scotlands People marriage - 22.6.1860 - Alexander Ross, parents given as Alexander Ross and Helen Lamb - he's a farm servant - marries Jacobina Mitchell, born Washington, Meigle - parents Agnes Robertson and William Mitchell, Railway labourer.
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