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Topic: Issues with Lamb family research - COMPLETED (Read 2089 times)
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Forfarian
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It reads "John Lamb and Helen Seydie both in this parish proclaimed pro 1mo Feby 19th pro 2do Feby 26th pro 3tio March the 4th 1804."
Pro 1mo is short for pro primo meaning 'for the first time'
Pro 2mo is short for pro secundo meaning 'for the second time'
Pro 3tio is short for pro tertio meaning 'for the third time'
So what it tells you is (a) that both John and Helen were residents of Kettins in 1804 and (b) that their banns were called on three successive Sundays, 19 and 26 February and 4 March.
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AITKENHEAD, Lanarkshire; BINNY, Forfar; BLACK, New Monkland; BRYSON, Cumbernauld; BURGESS, North-East Scotland; CRUICKSHANK, Rothes; DALLAS, Botriphnie; DAVIDSON, Oyne; HOGG, Larbert; LESLIE, Rothes; LESLIE, Mortlach; MENDUM, England; PATERSON, Larbert; RHIND, Forfar; SANG, Scotland; SCOTT, East Kilbride; STOREY, New Monkland; THORNTON, Shotts; WADDELL, New Monkland; WILKIE, New Monkland; WILKIE, Tannadice; WYLLIE, Lethnot and Navar; YOUNG, Keith
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TunjiLees
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Dr. Oladipo James Olaore
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Ancestry has Alexander Ross in 1871 at Newtyle, a Plate Layer - a lot of the family seem to have worked on the railways - wife, Jacobina, born Meigle, children Alexander, 10, born Meigle, William , 7, born Washington, Meigle; Isabella, 5, and Mary, 2, both born Washington.
I was trying to find some things through this data you posted, but had trouble understanding who was born where. Perhaps you could just paste the census record?
Thanks
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Forfarian
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I've been having a bit more of a think about your John Lamb. If he was born in 1762 as per 1851 census, he would have been 42 when he married Helen Sidey, which is unusually old.
I went through all the Lambs in the IGI who are extracted from the Newtyle parish register, and noted with interest that there are at least three Marjories. One of them you know about - the wife of Matthew MacDonald. The others are the daughter of that one's brother McPherson Cunningham Lamb, and the daughter of Frederick Lamb and Barbara Fraser, who were married in Kettins or Coupar Angus in 1822. (The marriage is listed in both parish registers, which means that the banns were called in both parishes, which means that one of the couple lived in Kettins and the other in Coupar Angus in 1822.)
The 1841 census shows Frederick and Barbara living in Newtyle. Frederick's age is given as 40, so he could be anything from 40 to 44, and born any time between 1796 and 1801; and he was born in Angus. Now the only Frederick Lamb listed as born in Angus around then was the son of John Lamb and Agnes Doig, born in Kirriemuir in 1799.
John Lamb and Agnes Doig also had a son Alexander, born 1798, and, would you believe, there is an Alexander Lamb, wife Isabella Stormont/d, who, according to the IGI, had two children in Newtyle in 1820/21 and a whole lot more in Arbroath after that, including a Frederick (listed as 'Ford' in the IGI!). Though Alexander's age is shown as 50 in the 1841 census, which is ten years too old.
There's also a James Lamb with wife Janet Mackay who according to the IGI had two children in Newtyle and several more in Arbroath.
Anyhow the point of all this is to speculate that John Lamb was the widower of Agnes Doig when he married Helen Sidey. If so, Frederick and possibly Alexander and just maybe even James are older half-brothers of your Marjory. And every Lamb born or married in Newtyle is descended from your John Lamb.
But all of this will have to wait until you get to New Register House and are in a position to check it all out!
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AITKENHEAD, Lanarkshire; BINNY, Forfar; BLACK, New Monkland; BRYSON, Cumbernauld; BURGESS, North-East Scotland; CRUICKSHANK, Rothes; DALLAS, Botriphnie; DAVIDSON, Oyne; HOGG, Larbert; LESLIE, Rothes; LESLIE, Mortlach; MENDUM, England; PATERSON, Larbert; RHIND, Forfar; SANG, Scotland; SCOTT, East Kilbride; STOREY, New Monkland; THORNTON, Shotts; WADDELL, New Monkland; WILKIE, New Monkland; WILKIE, Tannadice; WYLLIE, Lethnot and Navar; YOUNG, Keith
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breaky
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Who was born where in 1871.
Family in 1871 are at Meigle Road in Meigle.
Alexander 10 son born 1861 Meigle
Alexander Ross 36 b.c. 1835 Newtyle
Isabella dau 5 b. Washington, Perthshire
Jacobina wife 35 b. Meigle, Perthshire
Mary dau 2 b. Washington
William 7 b. Washington
(Copy and paste against copyright?)
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Forfarian
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The 1881 lists the same family members all still in Meigle, and all born in Q S Meigle.
Q S is the abbreviation of 'quoad sacra' and means that they were born in the parish of Meigle as defined for religious rather than secular purposes. However it is only the entries in this particular enumeration district (ED) which are marked accordingly, and all but two of those in the ED born in Meigle are so marked. So I think the Q S just means that this particular enumerator wrote it against the Meigle-born folk in his ED, not that it has any particular significancs. As far as I am aware the Q S parish and the registration districts were contiguous at the time.
The IGI says ('extracted') that all seven of the children of Alexander and Jacobina were born in the registration district of Meigle.
However the 'Washington' intrigues me. Putting together the IGI and 1881 census, it looks as if this must be a place within the parish of Meigle, but there is nowhere remotely resembling it on any map I have looked at. Is the 1871 census information from a transcription or from the original document?
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AITKENHEAD, Lanarkshire; BINNY, Forfar; BLACK, New Monkland; BRYSON, Cumbernauld; BURGESS, North-East Scotland; CRUICKSHANK, Rothes; DALLAS, Botriphnie; DAVIDSON, Oyne; HOGG, Larbert; LESLIE, Rothes; LESLIE, Mortlach; MENDUM, England; PATERSON, Larbert; RHIND, Forfar; SANG, Scotland; SCOTT, East Kilbride; STOREY, New Monkland; THORNTON, Shotts; WADDELL, New Monkland; WILKIE, New Monkland; WILKIE, Tannadice; WYLLIE, Lethnot and Navar; YOUNG, Keith
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breaky
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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The 1871 census details are from Ancestry only , so "Washington" probably is a transcription error.
However, the marriage of Alexander Ross to Jacobina Mitchell in 1860 is taken from Scotlands People, and gives "Washington" as the place of marriage and as the usual residence of the bride. As she is a "domestic servant", perhaps "Washingon" was the name of the house where she was employed?
(You are right about Helen Lamb, Alexander's mother on the 1860 certificate - she has no maiden name on the certificate - neither has Agnes Robertson, the bride's mother - but the next unrelated entry further down does have one).
Just for background interest, the Scran website has a Statistical Account entry, stating that Newtyle was founded in 1832 and laid out on a grid plan, in connection with the development of the Dundee to Newtyle Railway.
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Forfarian
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I HAVE edited my profile - several times!
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The 1871 census details are from Ancestry only , so "Washington" probably is a transcription error. However, the marriage of Alexander Ross to Jacobina Mitchell in 1860 is taken from Scotlands People, and gives "Washington" as the place of marriage and as the usual residence of the bride. As she is a "domestic servant", perhaps "Washingon" was the name of the house where she was employed?
I think that must be it. The 1881 census lists several people's birthplaces as Washington, some under Meigle, some under Coupar Angus, some under (County of)Perth and some under (County of) Forfar (i.e. Angus), so I don't think it's a transcription error in the 1871.
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AITKENHEAD, Lanarkshire; BINNY, Forfar; BLACK, New Monkland; BRYSON, Cumbernauld; BURGESS, North-East Scotland; CRUICKSHANK, Rothes; DALLAS, Botriphnie; DAVIDSON, Oyne; HOGG, Larbert; LESLIE, Rothes; LESLIE, Mortlach; MENDUM, England; PATERSON, Larbert; RHIND, Forfar; SANG, Scotland; SCOTT, East Kilbride; STOREY, New Monkland; THORNTON, Shotts; WADDELL, New Monkland; WILKIE, New Monkland; WILKIE, Tannadice; WYLLIE, Lethnot and Navar; YOUNG, Keith
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TunjiLees
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Dr. Oladipo James Olaore
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I've been having a bit more of a think about your John Lamb. If he was born in 1762 as per 1851 census, he would have been 42 when he married Helen Sidey, which is unusually old.
I went through all the Lambs in the IGI who are extracted from the Newtyle parish register, and noted with interest that there are at least three Marjories. One of them you know about - the wife of Matthew MacDonald. The others are the daughter of that one's brother McPherson Cunningham Lamb, and the daughter of Frederick Lamb and Barbara Fraser, who were married in Kettins or Coupar Angus in 1822. (The marriage is listed in both parish registers, which means that the banns were called in both parishes, which means that one of the couple lived in Kettins and the other in Coupar Angus in 1822.)
The 1841 census shows Frederick and Barbara living in Newtyle. Frederick's age is given as 40, so he could be anything from 40 to 44, and born any time between 1796 and 1801; and he was born in Angus. Now the only Frederick Lamb listed as born in Angus around then was the son of John Lamb and Agnes Doig, born in Kirriemuir in 1799.
John Lamb and Agnes Doig also had a son Alexander, born 1798, and, would you believe, there is an Alexander Lamb, wife Isabella Stormont/d, who, according to the IGI, had two children in Newtyle in 1820/21 and a whole lot more in Arbroath after that, including a Frederick (listed as 'Ford' in the IGI!). Though Alexander's age is shown as 50 in the 1841 census, which is ten years too old.
There's also a James Lamb with wife Janet Mackay who according to the IGI had two children in Newtyle and several more in Arbroath.
Anyhow the point of all this is to speculate that John Lamb was the widower of Agnes Doig when he married Helen Sidey. If so, Frederick and possibly Alexander and just maybe even James are older half-brothers of your Marjory. And every Lamb born or married in Newtyle is descended from your John Lamb.
But all of this will have to wait until you get to New Register House and are in a position to check it all out!
Your theory on the Lamb family in Newtyle is very interesting and exciting Forfarian. I doubt I would have come up with that, so thank you very much. That will definately be one of the first things I lookup if I get to visit the Register Office in Edinburgh.
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breaky
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Agnes is the wife of William Mitchell, they are the parents of the Jacobina who married Alexander Ross.
Found more on "Washington" at
www.geo.ed.ac.uk/scotgaz/towns/townhistory618.html
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Forfarian
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I HAVE edited my profile - several times!
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Interesting that Newtyle was founded in 1832, though it must have existed before then as people are listed as born there before that.
You need to distinguish between the parish of Newtyle and the village of Newtyle. The parish (and kirk) did indeed existed long before 1832. The parish register records baptisms and proclamations in the whole of the parish, not just in the village.
There are dozens of similar examples all over Scotland of villages which are much younger than their parish. In some cases, like Newtyle in Angus and Rothes in Moray, the new village took the name of the parish. In others, like Aberchirder in Marnoch, Banffshire and Letham in Dunnichen, Angus, the new village was given a different name from the pre-existing parish.
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AITKENHEAD, Lanarkshire; BINNY, Forfar; BLACK, New Monkland; BRYSON, Cumbernauld; BURGESS, North-East Scotland; CRUICKSHANK, Rothes; DALLAS, Botriphnie; DAVIDSON, Oyne; HOGG, Larbert; LESLIE, Rothes; LESLIE, Mortlach; MENDUM, England; PATERSON, Larbert; RHIND, Forfar; SANG, Scotland; SCOTT, East Kilbride; STOREY, New Monkland; THORNTON, Shotts; WADDELL, New Monkland; WILKIE, New Monkland; WILKIE, Tannadice; WYLLIE, Lethnot and Navar; YOUNG, Keith
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Forfarian
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I HAVE edited my profile - several times!
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Agnes is the wife of William Mitchell Are you sure they were married? You said that she is simply listed as 'Agnes Robertson' in Jacobina's marriage certificate. If she had been married to William Mitchell her name would be shown as Agnes Mitchell MS (for 'maiden surname') Robertson.
Found more on "Washington" Well done! So it is another name for Ardler. I wonder why the name doesn't seem to have stuck?
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AITKENHEAD, Lanarkshire; BINNY, Forfar; BLACK, New Monkland; BRYSON, Cumbernauld; BURGESS, North-East Scotland; CRUICKSHANK, Rothes; DALLAS, Botriphnie; DAVIDSON, Oyne; HOGG, Larbert; LESLIE, Rothes; LESLIE, Mortlach; MENDUM, England; PATERSON, Larbert; RHIND, Forfar; SANG, Scotland; SCOTT, East Kilbride; STOREY, New Monkland; THORNTON, Shotts; WADDELL, New Monkland; WILKIE, New Monkland; WILKIE, Tannadice; WYLLIE, Lethnot and Navar; YOUNG, Keith
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breaky
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Sorry, my use of "wife" for Agnes Robertson was sloppy - no maiden name was given for her - which I'd just finished typing!
On the 1860 marriage certificate of Alexander Ross and Jacobina Mitchell, one of the names of the witnesses is difficult to read - any suggestions?
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 Ross.png (4.05 KB, 306x260 - viewed 156 times.)
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« Last Edit: Friday 08 February 08 23:55 GMT (UK) by breaky »
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PrueM
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Looks like John Robertson to me 
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I live in NSW, and am researching:
BALFOUR (Derry) – BIGG (Kent) – BONSALL (DBY, NTT, CHS) – BRISBANE (Fife) – DANKS (STS) – DOBSON (BRK) – FRANCIS (ESS) – GOODE (HAM) – HAYNES (Cork) – INGRAM (MDX, SOM) – LANGWORTHY (Jersey, DEV) – MCKAY (Fife, Aberdeen, Banff, Moray, Inverness) – MORRISH (LND) – NANCARROW (CON) – OGILVIE (Moray, LND) – STRATHDEE (Banff) – SWAN (Fife) – WOOD (LND)
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