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Topic: mullen of kilmarnock, (Read 1983 times)
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AMBLY
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Hi Rob!
Another piece of the puzzle  ...I fully expected the marriage certificate NOT to state Francis' father as John MULLEN/MULLIN. What you now have is the name of the man behind the McMILLAN part (I assume his father is given as Robert McMILLAN!?). Now just got to figure out who he was and where he fits in...ie: was he Ann's first husband? 2nd? Or was she ever married to him?
Some Questions:
Does the date of the marriage McMILLAN / McMAHON match the date given on the birth certificate of Grandad John (which you posted first off on this topic)?
What occupation did it give for Robert and was he stated as deceased?
Who were the witness to that marriage?
Do Rose's parents on the certificate do tie up as John McMAHON and Rose McGRAW?
Did the marriage address say 22 Robertson or just Robertson - nevertheless, considering all the above, I'd say the odds on this marriage NOT being your Francis are extremley slim and the fact your Grandad John was later born on the same street is in this case, unlikely to be co-incidental.
Families did move often in those days - sometimes to a different house on the same street - and indeed sometimes to dodge the rent-man In this case, I don't think it's a name-change per se; I think the answer will lie on where we can fit Robert in, and finding Francis birth certifitcate. One scenario is that he born to Ann and Robert McMILLAN but from a young age, the only father he ever knew was John MULLEN.
I also note - son John gave the information for Francis' death - it's very possible your Grandad John never ever knew of Robert McMILLAN or that Francis was ever anything else other than MULLIN.
So.....next step :
One one hand: In the McCART marriage, the one person who knew best was present - Ann. It may state she was nee FISHER formerley MULLEN and if she was ever married to McMILLAN, his name too.
On the other hand: Ann's death : we already know MULLIN and FISHER are indexed as other names she was know as - the full entry may or may not say McMILLAN aswell - if her son Francis or her husband McCART advised of the death it's possible, since we know they both must have known of McMILLAN....but then maybe neither was the informant.....
If it were me. I'd get both but if I had to choose..maybe the marriage first?
This is a very intriguing topic Looking forward to seeing what happens next!
Cheers
AMBLY
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AMBLY
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 2773
Falkland Islands "Desire The Right"
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Hi Rob
Gosh, I'm on tenterhooks! Have just PM'd you my email address - love to have a look!
I'm confused too - re James McLAUGHLIN! Since her entry on the Death Index came up positive to include 'other surname "MULLIN" 
Cheers
AMBLY
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AMBLY
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Hi Rob!
I can't make out the details fully on the image posted here -i t blurs when I enlarge it big enough to read. Do you think you could mail them, just as the sizings as you got them off SP?
Cheers
Anne
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AMBLY
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Hi Rob!
Got the files - first ones were too small. 2nd lot are better - but when enlarged they just blur! Not sure if it's the way they are sent or downloaded from SP? I've got SP certs myself, and they enlarge beautifully to be able to make out the fine print! How do they work on your PC? Maybe the settings on SP and the viewer you select will make a difference?
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/content/help/index.aspx?r=551&458
But.....I can see than Ann was actually Agnes Ann FISHER!
You say you've found Francis in 1891! Yay! Where! I couldn't see it for looking! Could you send mne that one too? Was the 1901 Census you found for him the same one I posted above in the McCART house?
OK, off to strain the eye muscles and see what I can make out for you :-))
Cheers
AMBLY
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AMBLY
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Hi Rob
Everything received beautifully.....and goodness, talk about a tangled web!!
This is what you have now!
MARRIAGE of Francis and Rose
31 Oct 1908 St Josephs Chapel (Catholic) , Kilmarnock
Groom: Francis McMILLAN, 22, Carter, Bachelor of 12 Robertson Place Kilmarnock
Father: Robert McMILLAN, Coal Miner (deceased)
Mother: Agnes Ann McMILLAN now Mrs McCARTNEY, m.s. FISHER (not stated as deceased!)
Bride: Rose McMAHON 22, Muslin Weaver, Spinster of 3 Old Mill Road, Kilmarnock
Father: John McMAHON, Coal Dealer
Mother: Rose McMAHON m.s. McGRAW
Witness: Patrick McDONALD and Annie M? McMAHON
Same marriage date as on grandad's birth cert.
Right parents for Rose and she did have a sister named Ann.
Right address for Francis per birth of his son later(but different number house)
Slight but acceptable variation in name of McCART - to McCARTNEY
Confirms a Catholic faith - so pre 1855, you may not get any SP records for family members, nor any IGI at all.........
DEATH: Agnes Ann McCART nee FISHER
November 21st at 6h 45m pm at 14 New Street (Usual residence 18 Waterloo St Kilmarnock)
Agnes Ann McCART age 50
Married to:
(1) Robert MULLIN, Coal Miner
(2) James McLAUGHLIN Coal Miner
(3) George McCART Furnace man
Father: Patrick FISHER, Coal Miner, (deceased)
Mother: ------------------ FISHER, m.s. ----------------(deceased)
COD: Fracture of Base of Skill as certified by A MASON, M.D.
Informant: Peter COLLINS, son-In-Law, Present, of 12 Robertson Place Kilmarnock
The informant did not know Ann's mother's name.
But he did know of McLAUGHLIN.
Is the first marriage meant to be John MULLEN? Did the informant make a mistake...considering, Ann probably died at the address of her son RObert MULLEN(see below)
(Is the ifnormant married to Ann's daughter Helen perhaps?)
DEATH - REGISTER of CORRECTED ENTRIES
Parish of Kilmarnock, County of Ayr
The following Rep[ort as result of a Precognition has been received touching the death of Agnes Ann FISHER or McCART...........
Name, age & Sex: Agnes Ann FISHER or McCART 50 years female
When & Where Died: On the 21st November 1908 within the house of 14 New Street, burgh of Kilmarnock, occupied by Robert MULLIN Collier, residing there.
Cause of Death Fracture of the Base of the Skull seen by by Dr Mason. and Dr Isbister Kilmarnock
then....1891 Census you found:
(Grrr! I found this one, absorbed the "Nitshill" place of birth but discarded it becasue not sure, then I later found the FISHERS at Nutshill (above) and then couldn't remember who it was I 'd found with "Nitshill"......)
1891: No 7 Palace Craig Manse? Row, Old Monkland (Eastern), Lanarkshire
Ref: 652/3 . ED 1, pg 19
Head: James McLAUGHLIN 40, Coal Miner, b Kilmarnock Ayrshire
Wife: Ann McLAUGHLIN 33, b Nitshill, Renfrewshire
Son: Hugh McLAUGHLIN 9, Scholar, b Kilmarnock, Ayrshire
Dau: Jeannie McLAUGHLIN 7, Scholar, Kilmarnock, Ayrshire
Step-Son: Robert MULLEN 9, Scholar, b Blantyre, Lanarkshire
Step Son: Francis MULLEN 4, Scholar, b Thorneywood, Lanarkshire
Step-Dau: Helen MULLEN 2, Old Monkland, Lanarkshire
(note - I incorrectly aged Helen/Ellen in 1901 as 3 - recheck - should be 13, have amended above)
I think --- the marriage of Ann to McCART - after all it's the one chance you have to date to allow Ann to 'speak for herself' on the history of her marriages - you may be lucky to get her prior husband's first name from it? At the least it will hopefully confirm her mother's name and therefore the probable Census found for Ann with parents above.
Now where is she in 1881! Have you winkled her out?
Cheers
AMBLY
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AMBLY
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Trying to keep the spinning under control., definitely .........
SP has 2 marriages indexed of an Ann FISHER to a man named MULL*N
1) ro Robert MULLIN 1879 Bothwell Lanarkshire
2) m John MULLEN 1882 Midlothian
Looks like the first one would be more likely .....and in 1881 we would want her as the wife of Robert MULL*N......
Will keep lookin! Actually we haven't got her in 1871 either....yet
Cheers
Anne
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AMBLY
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Posts: 2773
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Hi Rob
I wonder about the surnames on that 1901 Census where your Ann FISHER is Mrs McCART - very odd - but if I try looking on SP index for 1901 Census, the only one I can bring up is :
George McCART age 2 in Kilmarnock Ayr.......
I can't for the life of me bring up :--
Geo McCART 34
Annie McCART 44
Franc*s McMIL* 14
Ellen McMIL*13
James McMIL* 10 (I can a James McMI* age 10 but if I try McMIL* it no-result)
I was recently involved in a topic where a look at a Census inage revealled a quite different surname than was indexed on A*ces*try - wonder if that's the case here - or am I just going bonkers?
This was that FISHER I found at Aitkenhead Avenue in Bothwell - might be Ann's father
1881: 3 Aitkenhead Row, Bothwell, Lanark,
625-1 , ED 9, Pg 26
Head: Patrick FISHER 63, wid, 63 , Gel Labourer, b Ireland
(looks like he is enumerated alonf at Nr 3.
Oh where oh where is Ann in 1871 and 1881!!!!!
Cheers
AMBLY
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francis_marraige.jpg
nope Doh!
