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Topic: NBI (Read 407 times)
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Marmaduke 123
RootsChat Senior
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Posts: 269
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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NBI
« on: Thursday 07 February 08 22:08 GMT (UK) » |
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I've just realised that the Oxfordshire records which were formerly part of the NBI and available on FamilyHistoryOnline have been withdrawn from there. Can anyone give an explanation? They are very much missed!
Anne
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Bintcliffe, Simpson, Taylor, Tempest, Gee, Singleton, Helm,
Summerscales, Baldwin,,Bolton, Kitson, Gledhill, Lockwood,
Chadwick, Brearley, Gaukrodger
All from Halifax/Huddersfield area of West Yorkshire
Hopton Gloucestershire
Millinchip Worcestershire
Francis Monmouthshire
Walker Wiltshire
Springall Bucks
Mickle Berkshire
Day, Ven Somerset
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Marmaduke 123
RootsChat Senior
Offline
Posts: 269
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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Re: NBI
« Reply #3 on: Monday 03 March 08 22:33 GMT (UK) » |
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Yes, I saw this in the Berkshire FHS magazine. Apparently negotiations are continuing between the diocesan lawyers and the county archivists. Is there anything we can do to help?
Anne
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Bintcliffe, Simpson, Taylor, Tempest, Gee, Singleton, Helm,
Summerscales, Baldwin,,Bolton, Kitson, Gledhill, Lockwood,
Chadwick, Brearley, Gaukrodger
All from Halifax/Huddersfield area of West Yorkshire
Hopton Gloucestershire
Millinchip Worcestershire
Francis Monmouthshire
Walker Wiltshire
Springall Bucks
Mickle Berkshire
Day, Ven Somerset
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Trees
RootsChat Aristocrat
Offline
Posts: 1423
Can't see the wood for the !!!
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Re: NBI
« Reply #4 on: Monday 03 March 08 22:41 GMT (UK) » |
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Surely these are public records why on earth can't they be made accessible? How can we help?
trees
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Birmingham-BIRD,WILMOT Cornwall-BRAY,PHILLIPS,RULE Devon MARLES Hereford-HAMMER,HARTLAND,TOMKINS, NEATHERWAY Leicester-WILKINS Northampton-HAKESLEY,ELLARD Northumberland-EDMESTON,LIDDELL,LOGAN,WATSON Oxfordshire-ALLEN,DUNSBY, HADLAND, MERCER,NEEDLE Shropshire-HALL Somerset-BATTEN, PERKINS Warwick-MELLOR,STANFIELD,TAYLER,TIMMS Worcestershire-HARTLAND, HODGES, MARSHALL,MOULE,DANDY,THOMAS Pembroke-DAVIES WWW. http://www.mcmullin.plus.com |
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newburychap
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 524
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Re: NBI
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 05 March 08 19:33 GMT (UK) » |
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Surely these are public records why on earth can't they be made accessible? How can we help?
trees
Actually they are not public records but records of the Church of England, in this case Diocese of Oxford - who remain the owners of the registers. There is an argument that they are in effect public records because they were kept on intruction from central government but the ownership element (and hence the copyright) is undisputed. The CoE recognises the public interest in these records and has put rules in place to both protect them and allow public access. However, these rules do allow a parish to hold on to their records provided they are kept properly and to charge something like £17 for a lookup. So we are fortunate that most old PRs have been deposited at county record offices (which in this case double up as diocesan or archdeaconry archives).
It should also be noted that accessibility to public records is something that British citizens have a right to - under the laws of this country. However, there is nothing to say that it has to be on the internet - in general we are expected to visit archives to view these records - it is a real bonus that so much is available online, even if it is only the tip of the iceberg of public archives.
The Diocese of Oxford has a history of restricting access to those visiting their archives (Oxfordshire, Berkshire & Buckinghamshire ROs). Originally this was explained as disapproval of the LDS and the use to which they put the records, which resulted in minimal filming of Oxfordshire PRs. Berks and Bucks registers were extensively filmed by the LDS which I guess means that the local archivists simply saw the LDS offer to film as too good an opportunity to miss (they got copies of all the films) and neglected to check with the diocese for approval or someone at diocesan level was not 'on message' and gave permission.
I cannot work out what they are objecting to at present - perhaps they are still determined that the LDS will not 'steal (or bother) the souls' of their parishioners - which seems unlikely as the LDS will surely have the Oxon transcripts that have been around for years. A second possibility is that they can see a financial value in their records that they plan to exploit - but there is little sign of this. With regards more recent records they may be worrying about the Data Protection Act - in which case they could apply some sort of cut-off date for online records. Quite frankly their motivation escapes me.
What can we do about it?
One possibilty is to complain to the Bishop - which may have the desired effect but may simply further entrench the diocese in its current attitude.
Another is to let the local archivists continue to lobby on our behalf and hope their arguments will eventually change the diocesan view.
Another is to lobby the General Synod of the C of E to come up with a consistent approach to making their records available. The current situation where one diocese promotes internet access and another denies it is ridiculous. If they want to raise funds from the records (lets face it they are always in need of cash) then let online data providers digitise the records and put them up pay-per-view.
A final option is to go down to your local LDS Family History Centre - order up a film of a PR, transcribe it and put it online. You might get sued for breach of copyright but I suspect you would win (facts cannot be copyrighted - PR entries are supposedly facts) - however, I am not a lawyer and the courts may well disagree with my argument - so beware! The diocese may hate you, which will disuade FHS's from going down this line as they need to maintain good relationships with ROs and the Church, but you may not be worried about it.
Some good news - the diocese is not (currently) objecting to the local FHS's publishing transcripts and indexes on paper, fiche or CD - so the records are becoming increaseingly accessible.
Finally - what is my stand on this issue? I guess there is an element of "I'm all right Jack" - the three ROs are in easy reach of my home, I enjoy visiting them, particularly because they have so much more than PRs which would take decades to get online. So I am not really effected by the current situation and am unlikely to do any more than sign the odd petition. I am certainly not about to put any full PR transcripts online though my website does have a couple of Oxon will transcripts and some PR entries pertaining to some ancestors in Oxon (they haven't sued me yet).
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Currently researching:
HEADs in west Berkshire (the Peasemore/Leckhampstead line).
Newbury almshouses & many other aspects of the history of the area.
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Marmaduke 123
RootsChat Senior
Offline
Posts: 269
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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Re: NBI
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 05 March 08 19:42 GMT (UK) » |
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Hello Newburychap
Thanks a lot for your very clear explanation. I am still very puzzled by the lack of consistency within the C of E, and the motivation for not allowing the records to go on the internet. It appears that the diocese did not know that the Berks, Bucks and Oxon burial records were online through Family HistoryOnline.
I am mindful of the need not to antagonise the diocese, but I wonder if it is worthwhile writing to the Bishop to ask for the rationale behind the policy?
Anne
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Logged
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Bintcliffe, Simpson, Taylor, Tempest, Gee, Singleton, Helm,
Summerscales, Baldwin,,Bolton, Kitson, Gledhill, Lockwood,
Chadwick, Brearley, Gaukrodger
All from Halifax/Huddersfield area of West Yorkshire
Hopton Gloucestershire
Millinchip Worcestershire
Francis Monmouthshire
Walker Wiltshire
Springall Bucks
Mickle Berkshire
Day, Ven Somerset
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Trees
RootsChat Aristocrat
Offline
Posts: 1423
Can't see the wood for the !!!
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Re: NBI
« Reply #7 on: Monday 10 March 08 17:52 GMT (UK) » |
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Just back from a trip to the midlands. Thank you Newbury chap for that explanation wish we lived nearer with a lot of Oxfordshire and Berkshire ancestors to sort out It certainly teaches me to be patient while the next visit can be arranged  In all fairness it is great to see the records held in the RO's and the staff are friendly and helpful, but I do not really appreciate being directed to the transcripts of the parish registers rather than to filmed registers. I think you can get so much more from the original than someones interpretation. I have found several mistakes in transcripts in other ROs so try to use them to locate the actual dates on the film/fiche but Oxford seem to rely heavily on the transcripts.
Trees
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Birmingham-BIRD,WILMOT Cornwall-BRAY,PHILLIPS,RULE Devon MARLES Hereford-HAMMER,HARTLAND,TOMKINS, NEATHERWAY Leicester-WILKINS Northampton-HAKESLEY,ELLARD Northumberland-EDMESTON,LIDDELL,LOGAN,WATSON Oxfordshire-ALLEN,DUNSBY, HADLAND, MERCER,NEEDLE Shropshire-HALL Somerset-BATTEN, PERKINS Warwick-MELLOR,STANFIELD,TAYLER,TIMMS Worcestershire-HARTLAND, HODGES, MARSHALL,MOULE,DANDY,THOMAS Pembroke-DAVIES WWW. http://www.mcmullin.plus.com |
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