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Topic: HELP info in Ireland (Read 5619 times)
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TunjiLees
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 332
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What if I only know an ancestor's name and that he was born in Ireland? Where would I start looking from that? (b. Abt 1781, Ireland)
I'm told it is an uncommon name for Ireland, Oliver (Lees), so there should be very few of them.
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« Last Edit: Monday 11 February 08 14:38 UTC (UK) by Boongie Pam »
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aghadowey
Global Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 13589
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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As I said a few days ago on your post Lees Family, from Ireland to Edinburgh?:
Now, as to tracing the family back to Ireland- the two important bits of information need to start any Irish family research is what religion the family were (to locate church records) and where they lived (parish if not actual townland not just a county or 'Ireland').
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Christopher
Deceased
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 10243
1939 - 2009
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Hello TunjiLees,
Lees is not a common Irish name. At the time of Griffith's Valuations (1848 - 1864) there were eighteen families with the name in Co. Derry and nine in Co. Dublin plus another two in Dublin city... there were four in Belfast and three each in Antrim and Tyrone. There were another seven families in the country.
Some of the sources below may assist you.
Nineteenth Century
Many of the links shown below are on John Hayes Fáilte Romhat.com website.
Census Records
First Valuation
Griffith's Valuation 1848-64
Householders Index
Land Owners in Ireland 1876
Pigot & Co's Provincial Directory of Ireland 1824
Selected Irish Marriages 1600 - 1900
Slater's Commercial Directory of Ireland 1846
Street Directories
Surnames from 1841-1851 census
Tithe Applotment Books
The U. H. F''s series of over thirty volumes of R. S. J. Clarke's Gravestone Inscriptions
may contain some details of your ancestors. It might be worth while to have a look at William Roulston's book titled "Researching Scots-Irish Ancestors the essential genealogical guide to early modern Ulster, 1600-1800" as it also covers that period. The appendices to Mr Roulston's book include a full listing of pre-1800 church records for Ulster; a detailed description of nearly 250 collections of seventeenth- and eighteenth-century estate papers; and a summary breakdown of the sources available from this period for each parish in Ulster.
Eighteenth Century Sources.
Books of Survey and Distributions c. 1700
Catholic Qualification Rolls 1778 - 1793
Convert Rolls 1704-1839
Electors Rolls 1761
Estate Records and Marriage Licence Bonds
Flax Growers List 1796
Freeholders entitled to vote 1770
Grand Jurors and Books of Presentiments
Militia Lists 1761
Oath of Allegiance 1775
Poll Books 1752
Proprietors of land circa 1700 list
Protestant Householders 1740 list.
Register of Freeholders 1758
Return of Householders 1766
State prisoners 1798
Voters Lists 1727-1793
Thanks to a poster on www.buncrana.com here is the 1740 database of Irish Protestant Householders. Irish records appear in the most peculiar places. The 1740 Ireland Protestant Housekeepers in Counties Antrim, Derry, Donegal and Londonderry database is based on an original census now in the possession of the Presbyterian Historical Society of Ireland in Belfast. The work was commissioned by a member of the New England Historic Genealogical Society (NEHGS) at the beginning of the twentieth century and transcribed from the original by J.W. Kernohan, Secretary of the Presbyterian Historical Society of Ireland.
It looks as though you may have to join the NEHGS if you wish to look at the Housekeepers list.
Seventeenth Century Sources.
Athlone Herald 1690
Books of Survey and Distribution 1641
Calender of Patent Rolls of Charles 1
Calender of Irish Patent Rolls of James 1
Census of Ireland 1659
Cess Tax Accounts (Various dates)
Civil Survey of Ireland 1654
Down Survey 1654
Hearth Money Rolls 1665
Inquisitions Post Mortems
King James II's Irish Army List 1689
List of Outlaws 1641-47
List of Undertakers 1612 - 13
Muster Roll 1630
Muster Roll 1642
Outlawry Lists 1691
Subsidy Roll 1634
Subsidy Roll 1669
Ulster Plantation 1609
Christopher
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TunjiLees
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 332
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Thank you for your recommendations Christopher.
The NEHGS seems like an very interesting project, however I can't spend that much in order to search for a mere couple of ancestors that I may not even find.
Unfortunately, the census records website you linked is down, do you know if it was the correct one?
The provincial directory is interesting, though much too vast to go through blindly. The Ireland Times Ancestry website seems interesting also, unfortunately it charges 7 euro (!?) just to find out out the Lees' in one county!
As for the other records you linked, I can either find nothing of value or the data is of the wrong period.
The 19th century sources are too recent and 17th century ones too old, and I can gather nothing on the PRONI Freeholder listings.
I'm beginning to think the census entry from which I learned my ancestor came from Ireland was wrong... 
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Polly88
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 15
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello there
I am having a similar problem. Most of my ancestors are from Liverpool but I have Irish ancestors on both sides. I am currently struggling to find details of my great grandfather John Begley (or Bagley). I can't find his birth or his death records (though I know he died in St Helens, Lancs). I do have his marriage certificate for 1874 which says his father is Thomas Bagley, deceased. My father remembers his grandfather very well, and said he was definitely Irish. I have found the family on the 1891 and 1901 census in St Helens. On the 1901 census, next door to them lived one of John Begley's children with an Ann Begley, grandmother, 66yrs, widow, born Ireland; I think this is Thomas's wife. But the question is, how on earth do I find out which part of Ireland they are from? I am guessing that both Ann and Thomas Begley were born around 1835. John was born in 1856, I thought in St Helens but maybe also Ireland.
Without any Irish census records I feel completely lost. I don't think they could have been land owners, or gentry or any kind, so I suppose they won't be on any available Irish records
Someone please help and advise!!!!
Polly
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Polly88
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 15
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks very much for this idea; not sure how a project on New England... would be helpful though. I find all this very confusing!!!
Polly
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Christopher
Deceased
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 10243
1939 - 2009
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Hello Polly,
What denomination were Ann and Thomas Begley? Were they members of the Catholic faith, the Established Church (Anglicans or Church of Ireland), Methodists or possibly Presbyterians?
You'll have to rely on Church records as civil registration in Ireland was not introduced until 1864. Non Catholic marriages were registered from 1845 onwards. When registration for BDMS started in 1864 some people didn't bother with the registration for a few years after that date. Keep your fingers crossed that church records still exist.
A county, parish or townland might help to find more information about him.
You may have to pay a visit, or ask someone to visit on your behalf, to the Presbyterian Historical Society of Ireland's Belfast Library or to the the Public Records Office in Dublin
to see the 1740 census.
Christopher
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Polly88
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 15
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello Christopher
Thanks for the help. I am sure they were Catholic; all the recent Begleys in my family are Catholic.
I know a lot of Begleys came from Derry, and also Kerry; but I really have no idea at all what county they came from. So if I went to Ireland where on earth would I go? Perhaps a starting point would be Belfast. 1740 census would be too early though. I think Thomas and his wife (possibly Ann) were born around 1835.
Do you know why the records in Ireland are not so accessible as the ones in England? I know about the fire which destroyed a lot of the records but you'd think the ones that remained would be more easily accessible.
Anyway, I'll keep ploughing on.
Thanks a lot, Polly
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Gatacre
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 554
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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It was the Irish government who pulped a great many of the census records during WW1. It was the biggest mistake they ever made.
You could try typing into Google 1851 census Co. Antrim and you will see that these Irish census were the most comprehensive you will ever see. People had to give the date of marriage and if anybody is missing from the 1841 census details have to be given of their whereabouts, If a person had died the cause of death had to be give.
Just think what all this would have meanst for us with Irish forebears. It is like losing the pot at the end of the rainbow.
Gatacre
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CLEGG,BINNS Rochdale
PATTESON-BLACKWELL Rochdale
PATTESON,SMITH Bury and Manchester
GARNER, ALLEN Manchehster/Ireland
HARTLEY, Burnley
BLACKWALL/WELL Hereford City, Herefordshire
COLLINS Leominster, Herefordshire
ARMSTRONG Orleton, Herefordshire
LLOYD Orleton, Herefordshire
THOMPSON Barrow-in-Furness, Lancashire
THOMPSON Dromara, Co. Down, N. Ireland
CAMPBELL Dromara, Down and Co. Tyrone N Ireland
FISHER Pennsyvania and Ohio USA
MARKS Pennsylvania USA
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Gatacre
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 554
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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You are quite right, Christopher.
Gatacre
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CLEGG,BINNS Rochdale
PATTESON-BLACKWELL Rochdale
PATTESON,SMITH Bury and Manchester
GARNER, ALLEN Manchehster/Ireland
HARTLEY, Burnley
BLACKWALL/WELL Hereford City, Herefordshire
COLLINS Leominster, Herefordshire
ARMSTRONG Orleton, Herefordshire
LLOYD Orleton, Herefordshire
THOMPSON Barrow-in-Furness, Lancashire
THOMPSON Dromara, Co. Down, N. Ireland
CAMPBELL Dromara, Down and Co. Tyrone N Ireland
FISHER Pennsyvania and Ohio USA
MARKS Pennsylvania USA
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jjcaffrey
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 27
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From the "Protestant Housekeepers in Counties Antrim, Derry, Donegal, and Londonderry, Ireland 1740" at NEHGS... I did a soundex search on Begley, and then Lees. I've included the description of the holding at the bottom.
First Name Last Name Parish Barony County Number
Mrs Beckly London Derry Tyrkeering Londonderry 1421 more
James Begly Tamlaght O Creely LaughinShillin Londonderry 1178 more
Willm Begly Tamlaght O Creely LaughinShillin Londonderry 1179 more
Randle Leas BallyKelly Kenoght Londonderry 3118
David Lees Magherafelt LaughinShillin Londonderry 21 more
Edwd Lees Magharafelt LaughinShillin Londonderry 265 more
James Lees Dunean Toome Antrim 5213 more
John Lees Maghara LaughinShillin Londonderry 2395 more
John Lees Magharafelt LaughinShillin Londonderry 264 more
Robt Lees Magharafelt LaughinShillin Londonderry 317 more
Robt Lees Termoneny LaughinShillin Londonderry 703 more
Thos Lees Magharafelt LaughinShillin Londonderry 364 more
Widw Lees Dunean Toome Antrim 5111 more
Widw Lees Dunean Toome Antrim 5116 more
Peter Leese Billy Dunluce Andrim 3097
Protestant Housekeepers in Counties Antrim, Derry, Donegal, and Londonderry, Ireland 1740
The 1740 Ireland Protestant Housekeepers database is based on an original census now in the possession of the Presbyterian Historical Society of Ireland in Belfast. The work was commissioned by a member of NEHGS at the beginning of the twentieth century and transcribed from the original by J.W. Kernohan, Secretary of the Presbyterian Historical Society of Ireland. The only other known transcription is a typescript in the Public Records Office in Dublin. The counties of Antrim, Derry, Donegal, and Londonderry were transcribed as part of this project. The original also contains information from the counties of Armagh and Down, which are not included here. This census was conducted by the Church of Ireland, but contains information on individuals in all Protestant denominations, as well as a number of Roman Catholic families. Only the name of the head of household is given — no additional information was recorded.
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