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Topic: 1841 census look-up JOSEPH ROPER - COMPLETED (Read 570 times)
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SC
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 567
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Can anyone please help to locate this Joseph Roper on the 1841 census
He is a canal boatman, born in 1821 in Crich Carr, Derby, to Thomas Roper and a Mary
He may be married, possibly with a daughter Hannah (born 1840/41)
He married Mary Ann Hullett on 15 Oct 1849 in Nottingam but I do not have the details of the marriage to know if he was a bachelor or a widower
In 1851 he is a boatman in St Mary Nottingham, wife Mary, address - canal
1861 he is in Crich Carr, boatman and with wife Mary
1871 he is on Canal St in St Peter, Derby, as an innkeeper with wife Mary, a Robert Staples, son-in-law, Robert's wife Hannah and dau Caroline - could this Hannah be Joseph's daughter born around 1840???
BUT the only marriage I can find for Robert Staples is to Hannah Rose in Mar Q 1863 in Bath area and a marriage for a Hannah Roper and Frederick Rose in Dec Q 1862 in Kings Norton area and a death for a Frederick Rose in Mar Q 1863 in Aston, Warwick, area - these places are not close by each other but could this all tie together somehow?
I have also located a Robert Staples age 3 with a William Rose and Ann in Bath in 1871 - he and Caroline are with Robert and Hannah in 1881 so there is some kind of connection
There are too many unknowns at this stage to start sending for certificates
Any help would be most appreciated
Thanks, SC
Any help to sort out this possible scenario would be much appreciated
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« Last Edit: Wednesday 15 April 09 15:28 UTC (UK) by SC »
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Manchester Rambler
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3490
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I haven't worked out the ROPER connection yet, but here's how STAPLES and ROSE fit together....
From Bath BMD http://www.bathbmd.org.uk/ :
Births 1867
STAPLES Robert William Joseph - mother's maiden name ROSE
(Lyncombe/Widcombe sub-district)
This is Robert W, listed as a visitor with William and Ann ROSE in 1871, and with his parents Robert STAPLES and Hannah in 1881.
You found Robert's marriage to Hannah ROSE in 1863, and wondered if she was a widow née ROPER, but I don't think this was the case. The censuses show her born c.1840 in Bath, and although there is no matching birth for either Hannah ROPER or Hannah ROSE, there is a birth registration for Anna Maria ROSE in 1841. (Her mother's maiden name is given as ADAMS on Bath BMD.)
1851 census
HO107/1942; Folio: 88; Page: 52
3 (?)Reservoir Place, Lynchcombe & Widcombe, Bath
William ROSE - Head - 47 - General Laborer - Isle of Wight
Ann ROSE - Wife - 30 - Gloster
Anna ROSE - Dau - 9 - Scholar - Bath
Caroline ROSE - Dau - 7 - Scholar - Bath
Priscilla ROSE - Dau - 3 mo - Bath
William and Ann are the same couple listed with Robert W in 1871, so he was visiting his grandparents.
This doesn't explain how Robert STAPLES is linked to Joseph ROPER, but at least it rules out one of the possibilities. 
"Son-in-law" was also used for a step-son, so he could be Mary Ann HULLETT's child by a previous marriage, just to complicate matters...
Rambler
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ANT: Nesbit, Potts CHS: Gosling, Hinton, Johnson, Marsland, Sorton LAN: Barlow, Jackson, James, Potts, Sorton MAY: Caulfield, Griffin SAL/STS: Goodwin, Gregory SOM: Dowding, James, Jones Any census information included in this post is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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SC
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 567
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Rambler
Thanks for all the info on the Rose/Staples families, it certainly pieces some things together though as you say it does not establish a Roper/Staples connection
Robert Staples was born in Bath in 1842, his birth year is shown on the Bath BMD site, so he doesn't seem to belong to Joseph or Mary
Mary Ann was single when she married Joseph Roper but she did have a son William, I suspect illegitimate, in Farnsfield about 1843 and who subsequently took the Roper name
If we could find Joseph in 1841 it might help, I suppose he could travel quite a way on the canals!!
Thanks SC
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Manchester Rambler
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3490
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I'm coming up with nothing for Joseph on the 1841 at present, but I'll give it another try.
Robert seems to be the illegitimate son of Emma STAPLES:
1851 census
HO107/1942; Folio: 87; Page: 51
8 Paradise Row, Lyncombe & Widcombe, Bath
Mary MILLER - Head - Wid - 77 - Formerly [...] Charwoman - Bath
Emma STAPLES - Dau - Unm - 29 - Laundress - Bath
Robert STAPLES - G Son - 8 - Scholar - Bath
Charles STAPLES - G Son - 3 mo - Scholar - Bath
I'm not sure how Mary MILLER can have an unmarried daughter called STAPLES....
This looks like the same Emma in 1841:
HO107/931; Folio: 20; Page: 33
12 BC Place, Lyncombe & Widcombe, Bath
Philip STAPLES - 70 - Lab - Somerset
Sarah STAPLES - 50 - Not Somerset
Emma STAPLES - 20 - Somerset
Eliza STAPLES - 15 - Somerset
I'll keep looking for a connection between STAPLES and ROPER or HULLETT.....
Rambler
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ANT: Nesbit, Potts CHS: Gosling, Hinton, Johnson, Marsland, Sorton LAN: Barlow, Jackson, James, Potts, Sorton MAY: Caulfield, Griffin SAL/STS: Goodwin, Gregory SOM: Dowding, James, Jones Any census information included in this post is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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SC
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 567
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hmm, this is interesting, another skeleton in a closet (or should I say two!) I would think it rare for one woman to have two illegitimate kids but I guess I'm proved wrong - strange that they are almost 8 years apart
If this is the same Emma in both censuses then her father would have to be Philip and her mother was the Mary who then remarried to a Miller (who subsequently must have died bef 1851) and also the Sarah shown on 1841 died as well although she was quite a bit younger than Philip - unless there was a divorce there can't be two mothers
This puts a bit more together and thank you for all the digging - I'm sure if we find the connection I'm looking for it's going to be quite involved
SC
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Manchester Rambler
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3490
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A couple of thoughts....
There's a probable death for Philip in Bath in 1844 aged 78, and another for Sarah in 1847 aged 65. (Ages match fairly well, bearing in mind that they were rounded off in 1841.) That seems to make it impossible for Philip to marry Mary.....
Of course, the 1841 doesn't state relationships, so Philip isn't necessarily Emma's father! (Although it is the most likely scenario.)
I haven't found Mary Miller in 1841, which is a pity.
As for the Ropers, I reckon they were were all out on the canals in 1841! The IGI has a some probable siblings for Joseph, all born Crich to Thomas and Mary, so I tried looking for them: no joy for any of them in 1841....  Thomas (1811) turns up as a boatman in 1851, then settles down as a laborer on later censuses. John (1817) is another boatman, and is apparently nowhere to be found until 1871, although his wife and children are in Stoke in 1861.
Rambler
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ANT: Nesbit, Potts CHS: Gosling, Hinton, Johnson, Marsland, Sorton LAN: Barlow, Jackson, James, Potts, Sorton MAY: Caulfield, Griffin SAL/STS: Goodwin, Gregory SOM: Dowding, James, Jones Any census information included in this post is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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SC
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 567
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Rambler
Well another theory discounted, the possibilities are slowly being narrowed down!!!
I have pretty well pieced together all the info on the Ropers from Crich, except for finding Joseph in 1841 (and a couple of his siblings and his father - all boatmen at that stage)
These people are very elusive!
John 1817 and Thomas 1811 are both Joseph's siblings and by 1881 they've all changed occupations
That's all I can add at this stage
I appreciate your persistence in trying to help
Thanks SC
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SC
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 567
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Since no further info has been found in my research to link Staples to Roper I am going to shelve this for now
If anything new comes up I will re-post
Thanks to those who have helped
SC
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