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Topic: Can't find a death (Read 421 times)
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LizzieW
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Posts: 2053
Does anyone recognise this man?
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Doing a bit of sideways work on my tree. 
I've found that Joseph Benson (one of my g.g.grandfather's brothers) born around 1837 in Dalton, Lancashire married an Ann E (possibly Elizabeth) Jolly in Hull in 1862. I've yet to get the marriage certificate, but I know from other research that this is correct. On the 1871 census, he is listed with his wife and 3 children, John Edward aged 7, Agnes E aged 4 and Joseph aged 2.
By 1881, he is listed as a widower, living with the two boys, in the household of his wife's sister and husband and their 2 young children.
In 1889 he marries again - and I have the marriage certificate to prove he did marry, and his 2nd wife is interesting as she states she is a widow on the marriage certificate, however, I can't find a first marriage for her, and interestingly, on Ancestry someone has sent in a change of name from Hingley the name she married under (and the surname her 3 children have) to Bettison which was apparently her maiden name - at least on the 1881 census she is listed as a widow and living with her widowed mother Frances Bettison - only 4 doors away from Joseph Benson.
However, I can't find a death for Joseph's first wife. I've searched Findmypast and Free BMD from 1871 to 1889, and the only possible death is an Annie Elizabeth Benson aged 39 (which is about correct) in Middlesborough in 2nd quarter 1885. I don't think this can be the correct person as I assume that Joseph Benson's first wife died before the 1881 census, or surely he wouldn't be living with her sister's family.
Also I can't find his daughter Agnes E, who would have been about 14 in 1881, so probably living elsewhere as a servant. I can't find a marriage or death for her either.
Joseph's first wife and all his children were born in Hull, so I assume that his first wife (and maybe his daughter) died in or around Hull.
Can anyone find either Ann E Benson or Agnes E Benson?
Many thanks
Liz
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BENSON- Dalton in Furness (Ulverston) and Hull
BETTISON - Derbys
BOULTON - Dalton-in-Furness and surrounding areas
BRAND - Lincs
COCKETT - Lincs, Yorks, Lancs
DA COSTA (or variants) - Spain or Portugal, London (Middx), ?Hull
GILCHRIST - Scotland, Lincs
HINGLEY - Derbys/Yorks
MANN - Sussex, Kent, Herts
MUMBY - Lincolnshire and Hull
PEMBERTON - Ches, Lancashire
ROBINSON - Lincs
WHITTAKER/WHITAKER - Ches/Lancs
WRIGHT- London(?Middx),Hull
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CatOne
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 4818
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I see Agnes is Agnes Emma -
Birth - Agnes Emma Benson Sculcoates March 1867 Vol 9d Page 120
Marriage - December 1890 Middlesborough Vol 9d Page 1001
Groom - George Carr (or Richard McDonald)
1891 RG12/4006 Folio 60 Page 5
George Carr m lodger 23 Ironworker Durham Cornforth
Emma Carr m lodger 24 Yorkshire Hull
in house of John Bell widower 63 Tailor and his son John H Bell s 26 Barman
+ lodger Walter Clarke 15 Office Boy
54 Boundary Road, Middlesborough
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« Last Edit: Thursday 28 February 08 13:00 GMT (UK) by CatOne »
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Dunning/Downing, Osborn/e, Astley -Cheshire/Birmingham/Middlesex Fanthorpe/Hall/Driffill/Storm - Lincolnshire Bower/Woodward/Bingham/Pettinger/Shaw - Nottinghamshire Shaw, Marland - Lancashire Broph(e)y - Queens County, Ireland Richards - Neath Swansea Hunt/Fox - Lincs, Waterfield/Middleton - Staffs Hart/Harland/Askew/Scales - Yorkshire Brereton/Vickers - Cheshire Gleaves/Sandford/Hulse/Hulme - Wolstanton/Audley Staffs Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov |
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LizzieW
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 2053
Does anyone recognise this man?
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CatOne - Thank you for that. I'd got so bogged down with Ann, I hadn't thought to look for the births of the children.
If that is the correct Agnes, then perhaps the death of Annie Elizabeth in Middlesborough in 1885 is also correct. Perhaps if she left her husband and her sister didn't approve, that's why Joseph Benson was lodging at her sister's house. As I said earlier, Joseph was living 4 doors away from his 2nd wife in 1881 and didn't marry her until 1889, so perhaps wasn't free to do so until at least 1885.
I'll try to find the two women on the 1881 census in Middlesborough. I had already looked for the 4 men who were lodging with the Benson's in 1871 unless Ann had gone off with one of them, but three of them had married women with other names and one was still unmarried, all still in the Hull area.
Lizzie
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BENSON- Dalton in Furness (Ulverston) and Hull
BETTISON - Derbys
BOULTON - Dalton-in-Furness and surrounding areas
BRAND - Lincs
COCKETT - Lincs, Yorks, Lancs
DA COSTA (or variants) - Spain or Portugal, London (Middx), ?Hull
GILCHRIST - Scotland, Lincs
HINGLEY - Derbys/Yorks
MANN - Sussex, Kent, Herts
MUMBY - Lincolnshire and Hull
PEMBERTON - Ches, Lancashire
ROBINSON - Lincs
WHITTAKER/WHITAKER - Ches/Lancs
WRIGHT- London(?Middx),Hull
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LizzieW
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 2053
Does anyone recognise this man?
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Hi - from the information I was given here, I sent for Agnes Emma's marriage certificate and she was the daughter of Joseph Benson and her husband was George Carr. Nothing unusual there. However, knowing that Agnes was living in Middlesborough, I thought I would send for the death certificate of Annie Elizabeth Benson, who although her husband Joseph was shown as a widower on the 1881 census, did not die until 1885.
The certificate arrived today and WOW. 
It is in the name of Annie Elizabeth Clarke, and her death was registered on the day she died 27 June 1885 by Walter Clarke who calls himself "Widower of the Deceased". However, on 12 August 1885 a Statutory Declaration was made by Walter Clarke and Agnes Emma Benson stating that the surname of Annie Elizabeth was in fact Benson and that her widowed husband was Joseph Benson.
I've no idea whether this means she had bigamously married Walter Clarke and whether he colluded or was totally innocent in the matter, however, it is obvious that Agnes Emma was not happy with the situation.
Since receiving this death certificate, I've found Walter and Annie Elizabeth Clarke on the 1881 census, she is called Anni and they have two children living with them Emma Clarke - who is obviously Agnes Emma Benson and a son William Clarke. Whether that is Annie Elizabeth's child or not I don't know.
All good stuff this genealogy.
Lizzie
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« Last Edit: Thursday 28 February 08 15:07 GMT (UK) by Lizzie Not So Busy »
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BENSON- Dalton in Furness (Ulverston) and Hull
BETTISON - Derbys
BOULTON - Dalton-in-Furness and surrounding areas
BRAND - Lincs
COCKETT - Lincs, Yorks, Lancs
DA COSTA (or variants) - Spain or Portugal, London (Middx), ?Hull
GILCHRIST - Scotland, Lincs
HINGLEY - Derbys/Yorks
MANN - Sussex, Kent, Herts
MUMBY - Lincolnshire and Hull
PEMBERTON - Ches, Lancashire
ROBINSON - Lincs
WHITTAKER/WHITAKER - Ches/Lancs
WRIGHT- London(?Middx),Hull
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CatOne
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Posts: 4818
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Interesting stuff!! 
I think the son's name in 1881 is Walter though, same as his father -
Possible birth? - Walter Clark Sept 1876 Middlesborough Vol 9d Page 555
Haven't found a marriage for Walter to Annie, so probably just living together. Sounds like daughter was miffed that her stepfather had put down his surname rather than her own fathers....
ps. just realised Walter is the lodger Office boy with Emma and her husband in 1891
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Dunning/Downing, Osborn/e, Astley -Cheshire/Birmingham/Middlesex Fanthorpe/Hall/Driffill/Storm - Lincolnshire Bower/Woodward/Bingham/Pettinger/Shaw - Nottinghamshire Shaw, Marland - Lancashire Broph(e)y - Queens County, Ireland Richards - Neath Swansea Hunt/Fox - Lincs, Waterfield/Middleton - Staffs Hart/Harland/Askew/Scales - Yorkshire Brereton/Vickers - Cheshire Gleaves/Sandford/Hulse/Hulme - Wolstanton/Audley Staffs Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov |
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LizzieW
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 2053
Does anyone recognise this man?
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Yes, I meant the son was also called Walter.
There shouldn't be a marriage for Walter and Annie Elizabeth as her husband Joseph was alive and well and living in Hull. Interestingly there is a marriage in Middlesborough Jun quarter 1880 for a Walter Clarke and an Annie Elizabeth McDonald!! I think this exercise will get a bit expensive if I buy that certificate to see if she puts her father's name down as Jolly - which is her real maiden name, as we are talking about my g.g.grandfather's brother's first wife.
Lizzie
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BENSON- Dalton in Furness (Ulverston) and Hull
BETTISON - Derbys
BOULTON - Dalton-in-Furness and surrounding areas
BRAND - Lincs
COCKETT - Lincs, Yorks, Lancs
DA COSTA (or variants) - Spain or Portugal, London (Middx), ?Hull
GILCHRIST - Scotland, Lincs
HINGLEY - Derbys/Yorks
MANN - Sussex, Kent, Herts
MUMBY - Lincolnshire and Hull
PEMBERTON - Ches, Lancashire
ROBINSON - Lincs
WHITTAKER/WHITAKER - Ches/Lancs
WRIGHT- London(?Middx),Hull
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avm228
RootsChat Marquessate
 Online
Posts: 3074
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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What a tangled web
Yorkshire BMD has the 1862 marriage:
Anne Elizabeth JOLLY
Joseph BENSON
St James, Hull
Ref SJH/3/256
Anna 
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Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)
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avm228
RootsChat Marquessate
Online
Posts: 3074
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Interestingly there is a marriage in Middlesborough Jun quarter 1880 for a Walter Clarke and an Annie Elizabeth McDonald!!
Well, there are no Walter Clarkes and only two Walter Clarks in Middlesbrough in 1881 - "Anni's" Walter and the son Walter...
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Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)
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LizzieW
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 2053
Does anyone recognise this man?
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Clarke is spelt with an E on the death certificate, although I agree it is without an E on the 1881 census.
Lizzie
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BENSON- Dalton in Furness (Ulverston) and Hull
BETTISON - Derbys
BOULTON - Dalton-in-Furness and surrounding areas
BRAND - Lincs
COCKETT - Lincs, Yorks, Lancs
DA COSTA (or variants) - Spain or Portugal, London (Middx), ?Hull
GILCHRIST - Scotland, Lincs
HINGLEY - Derbys/Yorks
MANN - Sussex, Kent, Herts
MUMBY - Lincolnshire and Hull
PEMBERTON - Ches, Lancashire
ROBINSON - Lincs
WHITTAKER/WHITAKER - Ches/Lancs
WRIGHT- London(?Middx),Hull
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Nutty1966
RootsChat Aristocrat
Online
Posts: 2341
Nutty!!
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Hi Lizzie
Have you looked at
www.middlesbrough-indexes.co.uk on this site you have the choice to email them and ask if there is such a name on the certifcate, they will not tell you the name, but maybe able to confirm that there is a Jolly on a certificate.
They have always been brilliant the staff, very helpful, good luck
Jane
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LEICESTERSHIRE & MIDDLESBROUGH - BOLLANDS, GORE, LINCOLNSHIRE - BAKEWELL, MARRIOTT MONAGHAN & CRAMLINGTON - RICE LAZENBY - HANSOM, HARRISON, NODDINGS, EASBY BARNBY DUN - HARVEY, BLANCHARD DANBY & WHITBY - JEFFELS LIVERPOOL - GANDER SKELTON & ESTON - SEATON BEDALE & MIDDLESBROUGH - STEPHENSON BROUGHTON - HARRISON MIDDLESBROUGH - WARD,FOSTER PINCHINTHORPE - POSTGATE BILSDALE- BOYES Cenusu informations is from crown copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uK |
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LizzieW
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 2053
Does anyone recognise this man?
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Jane - Thank you. I'll try that. As you can see from previous postings this lady was only the wife of my g.g.grandfather's brother so I don't want to spend any more money, I only got this far out of curiosity.
Anna - Forgot to say that the marriage between Joseph Benson and Anne Elizabeth Jolly is the first marriage for the couple.
Lizzie
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BENSON- Dalton in Furness (Ulverston) and Hull
BETTISON - Derbys
BOULTON - Dalton-in-Furness and surrounding areas
BRAND - Lincs
COCKETT - Lincs, Yorks, Lancs
DA COSTA (or variants) - Spain or Portugal, London (Middx), ?Hull
GILCHRIST - Scotland, Lincs
HINGLEY - Derbys/Yorks
MANN - Sussex, Kent, Herts
MUMBY - Lincolnshire and Hull
PEMBERTON - Ches, Lancashire
ROBINSON - Lincs
WHITTAKER/WHITAKER - Ches/Lancs
WRIGHT- London(?Middx),Hull
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avm228
RootsChat Marquessate
Online
Posts: 3074
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Anna - Interestingly on the 1891 census where you found Agnes Emma, now going under the name of Emma (and who could blame her) also living with her and her husband as another lodger is Walter Clarke aged 15 an office boy. Presumably this is the Walter who was on the 1881 census with her, her mother and Walter Clarke senior.
I agree, he must be.
But I can't take the credit for finding them in 1891; that was CatOne 
Anna
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Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)
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LizzieW
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 2053
Does anyone recognise this man?
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Anna - I tried to modify my post because I realised I'd mixed up your and CatOne's postings, but you were too quick for me and had already copied my comment.  .
Jane - I had a quick look at the Middlesborough site, but couldn't see either the marriage of Walter Clarke to Elizabeth Anne McDonald, nor the birth of Walter Clarke junior. I'll have another search tomorrow.
Lizzie
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BENSON- Dalton in Furness (Ulverston) and Hull
BETTISON - Derbys
BOULTON - Dalton-in-Furness and surrounding areas
BRAND - Lincs
COCKETT - Lincs, Yorks, Lancs
DA COSTA (or variants) - Spain or Portugal, London (Middx), ?Hull
GILCHRIST - Scotland, Lincs
HINGLEY - Derbys/Yorks
MANN - Sussex, Kent, Herts
MUMBY - Lincolnshire and Hull
PEMBERTON - Ches, Lancashire
ROBINSON - Lincs
WHITTAKER/WHITAKER - Ches/Lancs
WRIGHT- London(?Middx),Hull
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