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cheshiremog
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This is quite a mystery
I can not find a Harry Lloyd being born in 1896 - so maybe his birth was not registered -or maybe as you say - he was not a Lloyd at all. I can find a Richard Lloyd born June Q 1900 Chesterfield Derbys - this would be his younger brother as per the 1901 census. I have found the marriage of George Thomas Lloyd & Annie Spouge in Mar Q 1891 at Mansfield and they are on the 1891 as married but with no children. If Harry was not born until 1896 it was just a little bit unusual in those days to wait 5 years for a first child. I wonder if they lost some before or whether they could not have any and adopted Harry from a family member or a friend and then maybe Richard came along as a later surprise. The names on the birth certificate you have are also odd. I can not find a Thomas Johnson marrying an Annie Goodacre. I did however find a possible marriage for John Thomas Johnson marrying an Emma Spouge in Newark June Q 1889 (I think) unless it was the Dawe that married her.
For the family to get a birth certificate for Johnson they must have had some reason to believe he may have been named Johnson ?
If you have any more info let me know and I will look again.
By the way there was more than one Harry Johnson born in Mansfield in 1896 - I think there were three all together - are you sure you have the right birth certificate. What was Harry's birth date ?
I have seen this before on the census where the incorrect surname is given for children.
Have you looked for a Harry Johnson b. 1896 on the 1901 ?
Maybe he was not a Lloyd then?
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Cheshire - TAYLOR, HEAPY, KNOWLES, HAMPSON, CLAYTON, STONIER, PRITCHARD, NADIN, GALLIMORE
Staffs - HEAPY
Devon - CLIFT, VITTERY, TRIST, MOLLOY, COBLEY, LEAR
Devon & Cornwall - CLIFT, LARK
Somerset -Frome -HEAPY
Derbys/Notts- COCKAYNE, PHEASEY, KNOWLES
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Valda
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Have you found either parent on earlier censuses?
1881 census RG11 3428 folio 25
Thanet Street Clay Cross
William Goodacre 60 Head Married Carter Dalby Leicestershire
Mary Goodacre 32 Wife Married Colston? Bassett?, Nottinghamshire
James Goodacre 13 Son Coalminer Clay Cross Derbyshire
Annie Goodacre 7 Daughter Clay Cross Derbyshire
Richard Goodacre 4 Son Clay Cross Derbyshire
Robert Goodacre 9 months Son Clay Cross Derbyshire
Regards
Valda
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Valda
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Stephen or William Goodacre.
1871 census RG10 3606 folio 19
Banister's? Yard Clay Cross
Stephen Goodacre 53 Head Married Labourer at colliery Old Dalby Leicestershire
Mary Goodacre 23 Wife Married Colston Notts
James Goodacre 3 Son Clay Cross Derbyshire
Lydia Goodacre 4 months Daughter Clay Cross Derbyshire
Marriages Dec 1880
Goodacre Stephen Chesterfield 7b 1101
Sponge Mary Chesterfield 7b 1101
Births Jun 1874
SPONGE Annie Chesterfield 7b 599
This would account for the confusion between Goodacre and Sponge as Annie was born illegitimately.
Regards
Valda
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Valda
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Deaths Dec 1897
Goodacre William 78 Chesterfield 7b 397
William was in the Chesterfield workhouse in 1891 aged 70, married and a general labourer born Old Dolby Leicestershire
Regards
Valda
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Valda
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There is a Thomas Lloyd on earlier censuses born Shrewsbury of the right age, but he was definitely Thomas D. What was the name and occupation that Thomas gave for his father on his marriage certificate?
1871 census RG10 2770 folio 54
? Cottage New Park Road Shrewsbury
John Chas Lloyd 33 Head Married Tailor Buttingham? Montgomeryshire Wales
Elizth Lloyd 30 Wife Married Welshpool Montgomeryshire
Thos D Lloyd 3 Son Shrewsbury
John G Lloyd 1 Son Shrewsbury
plus 2 lodgers
1881 census RG11 2634 folio 93
Church Street Shifnal
Thomas Lloyd 41 Head Married Grocer Guilsfield Montgomery
Elizabeth Lloyd 41 Wife Married Montgomery Welshpool
Thomas D. Lloyd 13 Nephew Shrewsbury Salop
John C. Lloyd 11 Nephew Shrewsbury Salop
Florence R. Lloyd 5 Niece Shrewsbury Salop
Regards
Valda
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cheshiremog
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hi thanks for replying i did everything you did i even got the1911 census for the family he hadtwo more brothers and one sister by then father thomas lloyd 43 born dawley salop annie lloyd born clay cross age 37 married twenty years had six children 1 died five living harry lloyd 14 richard 11 john thomas 8 wilfred 6 and annie 2 richards birth certificate says thomas lloyd father annie spouge mother harry johnson born 10/10/1896 father thomas johnson miner mother annie lloyd nee goodacre address 8 frisbys yard portland st mansfield i even got his baptism same details except he lived at 7 frisby yard scouser
Scouser
Does it say on Harry's birth certificate:-
Father= Thomas Johnson
Mother = Annie Goodacre
or does it say?
Mother = Annie Lloyd nee Goodacre ?
Harry's surname = Johnson
Is that right ?
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Cheshire - TAYLOR, HEAPY, KNOWLES, HAMPSON, CLAYTON, STONIER, PRITCHARD, NADIN, GALLIMORE
Staffs - HEAPY
Devon - CLIFT, VITTERY, TRIST, MOLLOY, COBLEY, LEAR
Devon & Cornwall - CLIFT, LARK
Somerset -Frome -HEAPY
Derbys/Notts- COCKAYNE, PHEASEY, KNOWLES
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Valda
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scouser
Having all the relevant information that you knew right at the beginning would have helped! We then wouldn't have had to work out what you have already researched.
So to clarify Harry's birth was registered in the surname Johnson not Lloyd?
On his birth certificate it stated his mother was Annie Johnson nee Goodacre and his father was Thomas Lloyd? Or his father was Thomas Johnson? I'm still not clear
If the former the issue would be where Annie Goodacre/Spo(u)nge got the surname Johnson?
We already know Annie was the illegitmate daughter of William (Stephen) Goodacre and her birth was registered in her mother's maiden name of Sponge and that her parents later married (though at this time that would not have legitimised her).
That Annie married in the surname Spounge
Marriages Mar 1891
Spouge Annie Mansfield 7b 86
Lloyd George Thomas Mansfield 7b 85 (presumably wrongly page numbered)
Have you found the marriage of Annie's paternal grandparents John Spounge and Sarah the parents of her mother Mary? Do you know Sarah's maiden name?
If Harry's father was named as Thomas Johnson then have you checked he was born legitmately as Thomas Lloyd? Was his mother's maiden name Johnson?
Regards
Valda
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cheshiremog
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Minnie ~ frightened a mouse right under her chair!
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I am also getting very confused about what exactly is says on Harry's birth certificate - so can't work out what to look for ?
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Cheshire - TAYLOR, HEAPY, KNOWLES, HAMPSON, CLAYTON, STONIER, PRITCHARD, NADIN, GALLIMORE
Staffs - HEAPY
Devon - CLIFT, VITTERY, TRIST, MOLLOY, COBLEY, LEAR
Devon & Cornwall - CLIFT, LARK
Somerset -Frome -HEAPY
Derbys/Notts- COCKAYNE, PHEASEY, KNOWLES
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Valda
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The usual reason for surname confusion is illegitimacy but here it is both parents using the surname Johnson with no obvious reason for Thomas to do so if his mother's maiden name was Gough and he was born legitimately?
Marriages Sep 1856
Gough Martha Shifnal 6a 937
LLOYD John Shiffnal 6a 937
Does this marriage correspond with the information on Thomas' birth certificate? Was John a widower on marriage?
Where does the George come from on Thomas' marriage? Is it replicated on any other further record?
Have you checked the baptism register for Harry and siblings. What information does that give?
Regards
Valda
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