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Topic: Barron/Paterson *completed with thanks to Monica & Ellen* (Read 372 times)
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monkeymagik
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Posts: 67
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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Hi, I wonder if someone could please help me with this.
James Barron Married Annie Simpson in 1874 @ 21 High street Macduff, he was aged 29 making year of birth c1845. His usual residence at this time 6, Clune Street Banff. His parents listed as James Barron (Farm Servant) & Jane Paterson not deceased.
James died 1917 aged 73 yrs, making yr of birth c1844. Usual residence Fife St Banff. Parents James Barron & Jane Barron M.S Paterson. I can not find records for the birth of James (c1845), Marriage of his parents, or deaths of parents.
Would it be possible for someone to help me try & find any of the above records ie, birth of James or the marriage /Death of parents.( I'm not 100% sure that his parents ever actually married & so I have searched for Jane's death under surnames Barron & Paterson but can find nothing that I can confirm is her. ) I have some links in Census returns but nothing concrete. James appears to have been raised by other family members but even this info is not consistent.
1901 Census shows James Barron's place of birth as Gamrie, Banffshire c1845.
I seem to have spent forever & a fortune trying to figure this out, so before I need to re-mortgage my house to fund further unsuccessful searches on Scotlandspeople , I thought I better ask if anyone has any information re: my frustrating family!!!
Any help would be appreciated,
Thank you,
Regards,
Nicola.
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« Last Edit: Tuesday 12 February 08 14:36 GMT (UK) by monkeymagik »
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MonicaLesl
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Hi Nicola
Is this James in 1851:
Margaret Bowie 58, widow, Pauper Formerly Farmer, b. Rafford, Elginshire
Jane Bowie 22, daughter, , b. Edinkillie, Elginshire
James Barron 4, nephew, b. Edinkillie, Elginshire
Address: Chapelhill, Edinkillie
Margaret above looks to have been originally BARRON (husband Thomas Bowie). If Margaret lived past 1855, her death cert might at least provide some clues about James Barron Snr's family.
Regards.
Monica 
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire.
Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll.
Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire.
Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan.
McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland.
Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland.
..........and lots of Spanish name interests........
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ellenavon
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 181
My Grant ancestors
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OK - we have two seperate James Barron's here. Don't think the one we have in 1851 and 61 is yours, as he is in Inverness in 1881, married to an Isabella, a Newspaper Editor, still born Edinkillie.
While YOUR James Barron is at 13 Clunie Street, Banff with wife Ann and 2 sons, saying born Gamrie, Banffshire. And he's a Rope Maker.
Back to the drawing board.........
Ellen.
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Grant, Wright, Packman, Parley
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ellenavon
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 181
My Grant ancestors
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Hi again Nicola
I see your problem! Been struggling to find James jnr prior to his 1874 marraige.
I do have a very likely candidate for James Senior though. I believe, as you mentioned above that James Barron and Jane Paterson did not marry. (although I can not trace young James under Paterson either so far
 ) There is a possible for Jane in 1851:
Jessie Paterson, 24 (c 1827), Marnoch, Banffshire, working as a house servant at Craigneen, Boyndie, Banffshire.
Back to James senior. If indeed James and Jane/Jessie did not marry, this I believe is the most likely candidate for James:
1851, at Haddo, Methlick, Aberdeenshire
James Barron, 26 (c 1825), Farm Lab, b. Gamrie, Banffshire.
If this is him, he is relatively easy to trace
1841 - he is at Crook of Ness Street, Gamrie, Banffshire, age 18 (c 1823), a coopers apprentice, with parents Robert and Margaret, and siblings, Isabella,10, Margaret 8, Andrew 4, Robert 2 and Bathia 1.
It may be coincidence, but there are some Patersons also living in Crook of Ness Street, George, 15 a fisherman, Ann 10, with an Ann Lyal, 30 a spinster.
He married Christian Dufftown/Dufton/Duftan, 04 June 1853 at Huntly, Aberdeenshire.
1861 - he is at Deveron Street, Huntly, Aberdeenshire with wife Christian and children Alexander & Theodore (twins) (b. 16 Mar 1853 @ Huntly), Margaret, b. 12 Feb 1856 @ Huntly, Robert, b. 29 Jan 1858 @ Huntly, Andrew (6 months) (Ander there was a later child, Isabella, 11 Mar 1862). James is now a Flesher.
He died 20 June 1905 at 24 Deveron Street, Huntly age 86 (c 1819). there is a note of his death in the Courant newspaper 30 June 1905. Page 5 Col 6. see http://libindx.moray.gov.uk/mainmenu.asp
All of which is all very well - but we still have to tie him in to James jnr and Jane Paterson!!
Have another hour to spare so will have another rummage around before I have to go out.
Cheers
Ellen.
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Grant, Wright, Packman, Parley
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MonicaLesl
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Posts: 4479
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Well spotted Ellen There are these possible entries for James Jnr.
I've given up with Ancestry's mis-spellings and now looking at FreeCen. There is this entry which shows in 1851 (Ancestry have it as Barrow  ). Everyone showing as born in Gamrie:
William Barron, 58, labourer
Helen Barron, 58
Elizabeth Barron, 18
James Barron, 8, nephew
Address: High Street 11, MacDuff, Gamrie
In 1861, from Ancestry, still showing on there as Barrow:
William Barrow 66, Retired Day Labourer, b. MacDuff
Helen Barrow 66, b. Gamrie
James Barrow 15, grandson, saw miller, b. Gamrie
Address: 18 Shore St, MacDuff
The closest I can see on the 1871, which sort of fits with James's occupation in the 1881 entry posted by Ellen, but the relationships don't make sense in the household. Everyone showing as born in MacDuff:
Ellen Barron 42, Ag Labourer's Wife
James Barron 25, son, sailmaker
Alexander Barron 11
Mary I Barron 9
Georg Barron 2
Address: 2 Farlan St, Gamrie
Regards.
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire.
Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll.
Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire.
Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan.
McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland.
Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland.
..........and lots of Spanish name interests........
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 4479
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Nicola
What was the occupation for James Snr. in his son's marriage cert?
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire.
Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll.
Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire.
Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan.
McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland.
Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland.
..........and lots of Spanish name interests........
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ellenavon
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 181
My Grant ancestors
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Aah, found it - may be a complete red herring but,
1861 Marnoch, Banffshire (where the possible Jessie Paterson was born)
James Paterson, 15, General Servant, b. Huntly, Aberdeenshire
with Alexander Smith 83 and Jessie Smith 37.
I think I'm twisting the facts to suit myself here, but worth considering: maybe James knew his father was in Huntly by this time and thought he was born there??
The James Barron/Barrow you have above is much more likely. This would mean that William Barron and James Barron snr should be brothers? But William Barron is much too old to be the son of Robert and Margaret Barron. Could he be a grand nephew?
Hmmm - I'm off to sort out all we have so far and regroup - I think I'm going round in circles now - and I really should be getting ready to go out!
Cheers
Ellen.
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Grant, Wright, Packman, Parley
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 4479
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Hi Ellen
It does take you round in circles this one doesn't it!
My thoughts on the 1851/61 entries with William as head. James shows as nephew in 1851 and grandson in 1861  Quite often grandparent passed off illegitimate grandchildren as 'nephew/niece' . By 1861 James is showing as grandchild so not sure what's what on that one. There is a possible marriage for a William and Helen (McCurach) on 06 OCT 1831 Gamrie, so too late for them to have had a son James as father to James Jnr.
The 1871 entry with James as 'son' to Helen doesn't make sense either. Can't see a marriage between a James Barron and a Helen Taylor (who shows as mother to Alexander on IGI ) but there is one for a James and a Mary Taylor showing on 14 NOV 1852 King Edward, Aberdeenand not sure if this is the same couple. The children Mary Jane and George are in Helen's household with James Jnr with Helen as mother.... 
Still no closer to sorting out who's who and even if we have have the correct Barrons - frustrating!
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire.
Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll.
Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire.
Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan.
McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland.
Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland.
..........and lots of Spanish name interests........
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monkeymagik
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 67
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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Hi Monica & Ellen, WOW!! you 2 work fast!! Thank you so much I did not expect a response like that! 
I have a feeling the James Barron Son/Grandson/Nephew of William & Ellen is the correct James, but the relationship to head of family is the inconsistency I referred to in original post. I posted on Ancestry some time ago & a chap came back with this family also.
However so far I have been unable to confirm a connection with William or Ellen so cant be sure its the correct James. No clues on James Jnr's death record I was hoping a family member (brother/sister) had reged the death but it was just a medical attendant.
James Jnr is still recorded as a Rope & Sail maker in 1901 census living @ 21 Close of Fife Street, Banff( this is also where he lived when he died), his place of birth is still recorded as Gamrie, so the 25 year old James (sail maker) in the 1871 Census seems to fit other than place of birth!!!!
Hmmm. The really frustrating thing is not being able to confirm anything.
Thankyou again for your help,
(I hope my Barron family did not make you late Ellen!!!)
Nicola.
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MonicaLesl
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Posts: 4479
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Hi Nicola and Ellen
Huuuge cyber scream  of frustration. I found James Barron's, husband of Helen Taylor, death cert. Death reported by son George....who didn't know the name of his grandparents, not even part of their names.....
I still haven't sorted in my head James b. c. 1845's early years, but I do think in all probability the 1871 census entry is his. Occupation fits as does age. The reason he is showing as son is down to him being son of James, Helen's husband. Not sure where James Snr was in 1871.
Helen Taylor died in 1879,. Father's name not known by James widower, mother Mary Robb:
1879 BARRON HELEN TAYLOR F 49 OLD MACHAR ABERDEEN CITY/ABERDEEN 168/02 0683
Maybe this entry:
HELEN TAYLOR Christening: 24 APR 1828 Marnoch, Banff, Scotland
Parents: WILLIAM TAYLOR and MARY ROBB
James Snr. then moved to St Nicholas Aberdeen City. This is his 1881 entry:
James Barron 63, b. MacDuff
Helen Barron 25, mill worker, b. MacDuff (b. 06 SEP 1856 Gamrie)
George Barron 12, b. MacDuff
Address: 23 St. Andrew St, St Nicholas Aberdeen
And in 1891, still living in Aberdeen at 74 West North St Naiper Court, he shows living alone, age 78, general labourer. He died in 1896:
1896 BARRON JAMES 76 ST NICHOLAS ABERDEEN CITY/ABERDEEN 168/01 0371
As additional background, I found this entry for Helen, with James husband also away from home, in 1861. Family name mis transcribed:
Helen Barion 30, Farm Serv Wife, b. Marnoch
William Barion 9, b. Marnoch
John Barion 7, b. MacDuff
Helen Barion 4, b. MacDuff
Alexander Barion 2, b. MacDuff
Mary J Barion 1 Mo, b. MacDuff (As Ellen posted, her birth shows mother as Mary Taylor?)
Address: No.14 xxx? MacDuff
Mary Jane b. 1861 or, more likely, one of the two George births in the 1860s would show place/date of birth of parents (this info was introduced into birth certs in the early 1860s). Going by the age of eldest son showing above would likely be 1851-2ish?. In the census of 1851, there is a James Barron, 26, unmarried, b. Gamrie and a farm servant working in Methlick Aberdeenshire.
So, after all that, where do I think we might be? I think we certainly have a strong possiblity for James Jnr's father. That 1871 census entry with James Jnr. in the household with Helen Taylor is key. Huge pity James Snr's parents' details are blank.... 
Regards.
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire.
Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll.
Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire.
Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan.
McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland.
Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland.
..........and lots of Spanish name interests........
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Offline
Posts: 4479
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These are the details for William, who shows as uncle/grandfather to our target James Jnr in 1851/61:
To parents Alexander BARRON and Elizabeth MARR, married 21 OCT 1775 Marnoch, Banff, Scotland:
1. MARGARET BARON Birth: 07 NOV 1782/Christening: 11 NOV 1782 Gamrie, Banff, Scotland
2. ALEXANDER BARRON Birth: 28 MAY 1787/Christening: 28 MAY 1787 Gamrie, Banff, Scotland
3. ISOBEL BARRON Birth: 10 DEC 1791/ Christening: 26 DEC 1791 Gamrie, Banff, Scotland
4. WILLIAM BARRON Birth: 10 JAN 1794/Christening: 17 JAN 1794 Gamrie, Banff, Scotland
5. GEORGE BARRON Birth: JUL 1796/ Christening: 25 JUL 1796 Gamrie, Banff, Scotland
6. THOMAS BARRAN Christening: DEC 1798 Gamrie, Banff, Scotland
Nicola, given these dates, William Barron's relationship could have that of great uncle or maybe even grandfather, although we only have details of his marriage to Helen McCulloch in 1831. His entry in 1841 seems to show only children from this marriage given their age. So, I', probably more inclined to go with great uncle as a relationship.
The above list of siblings as you know is not conclusive. There was for example a John Barron and Elizabeth McKay having children in Gamrie:
1 11/05/1817 BARRON ALEXR JOHN BARRON/ELIZ. MACKAY Gamrie and Macduff /BANFF 155/ 0020 0506
2 19/09/1830 BARRON JANE JOHN BARRON/ELIZABETH MCKAY Gamrie and Macduff /BANFF 155/ 0030 0356
3 09/07/1828 BARRON JOHN JOHN BARRON/ELISABETH MACKAY Gamrie and Macduff /BANFF 155/ 0030 0326
Regards.
Monica
ADDED: There is a Pedigree Resource file on this family on Family search with submitter details included that might be worthwhile following up on.
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire.
Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll.
Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire.
Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan.
McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland.
Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland.
..........and lots of Spanish name interests........
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monkeymagik
RootsChat Extra
Offline
Posts: 67
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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A great big THANK YOU Monica & Ellen for all your help. Rootschat has some exceptionally kind/generous people as members.
Thank You.
Nicola
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« Last Edit: Tuesday 12 February 08 14:37 GMT (UK) by monkeymagik »
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