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Topic: The Burt History (Read 4147 times)
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tommacgregor
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Hello All,
I never cease to be amazed at how many people out there have connections to many of the branches of my own family. Many of you have faithfully followed the twists and turns on some of these branches and discovered that they can add an enormous amount of detail to their Family Tree by using the information that I post on a daily basis.
Some of you have experienced great difficulty in building your Family Tree because of false or misleading information, and I can well understand that, since I've experienced the same kind of thing. Although, like any other researcher, I may make the occasional typing error or slip up on a date or location due to fatigue, I think you know that I attempt to do my very best. I have no problem in having other researchers point this out to me - indeed I welcome it, if it's done in a spirit of friendship and a genuine will to help.
I have sent our Moderator, Pam, a message explaining what I want to do on this my latest posting. I do it because I realise that she is a very hard-working lady and I would certainly not wish to increase her workload.
The posting will follow the fortunes of the Burt family, (warts and all!), and cover an enormous span of time. I have done my damnest to insert a lot of information on each segment that is not normally to be found on many sources. That is quite deliberate, because some of you have already e-mailed me in private and made mention of certain indiiduals that are causing you problems. This means that instead of the usual parent/children approach, I will occasionally deviate to show you details of certain individuals and how they impact on the whole exercise.
I would ask that you don't try to hurry me along, because it takes a lot of concentration and time, and I simply have to rest for certain periods in the day. I hope you will understand.
Kind Regards,
Tom.
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tommacgregor
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Hello All,
I am commencing this examination of the Burt family by going back to round about the year 1623, which I believe to be that period of time when a certain Edward Burt was born in Dunfermline, Fife. His wife to be, Janet Hadstoun, was born just a few years later. The couple married on the 2nd of May, 1648 at Dunfermline.
The children that they had is quite difficult to ascertain, but I have attempted to place them in some semblance of order, plus some added detail, that is intended to give you a launching pad for your own more detailed investigations.
James Burt christened 17th December, 1649 at Dunfermline, Fife.
Andrew Burt christened in 1651 at Kaistock? (spelling) in Dunfermline. He went on to marry a Margaret Brown on the 1st of June, 1676 at Dunfermline.
John Burt christened about 1653 at Torrykirk, Dunfermline. He went on to marry (1) Agnes Annas White (Whyte?) on the 23rd June, 1682 and (2) Agnes Simpson on the 23rd November, 1711.
Janet Burt christened 24th August, 1662 at Dunfermline.
Isobell Burt christened 8th January, 1665 at Dunfermline. She went on to marry James Wilson on the 3rd July, 1684 at Dunfermline.
Edward Burt christened 16th April, 1668 a Dunfermline. Although I have been unable to verify it, I believe that he went on to marry a Jean Wannan in 1687 at Dunfermline.
At this point, certain researchers will be looking at the added information that I have given about Spouses, but I would ask that you don't pencil that information into your Ancestral Charts just yet. Why? Because I have done a considerable amount of work that will greatly assist you. This extra work will inevitably lead you on different paths to your very own family members, and that is to be expected.
Kind Regards,
Tom.
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tommacgregor
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1248
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello All,
In my last posting I suggested that you shouldn't pencil in any of the details that I had given just yet, because I had added information for you. Here is an example of what I was talking about:
John Burt, as we discovered on my previous posting was born c.1653 at Torrykirk in Dunfermline. He was the son of Edward Burt and Janet Hadstoun, who had married on the 2nd May, 1648 at Dunfermline.
John Burt married a lady called Agnes Annas Whyte (?White) on the 23rd June, 1682 at Dunfermline.
When I came to the birth of their children, I was reasonably happy with the time intervals between such births, but at times unsure whether I was looking at the birth of twins. I would be happy to see other researchers taking a look at these births to see whether or not they can find out a bit more for us.
William Burt christened 6th May, 1683 at Dunfermline, Fife. He went on to marry Sarah Trotter on the 14th October, 1702 at Dunfermline.
Isabel Burt christened 10th May, 1685 a Dunfermline, Fife.
Andrew Burt christened 10th May, 1685 at Dunfermline, Fife.
Andrew Burt christened 17th November, 1687 at Dunfermline, Fife.
Bessie Burt christened 4th October, 1690 at Dunfermline, Fife.
Jean Burt christened 27th February, 1694 at Dunfermline, Fife
Andrew Burt christened 27th February, 1694 at Dunfermline, Fife.
David Burt christened 9th May, 1696 at Dunfermline, Fife.
Edward Burt christened 19th July, 1696 at Dunfermline, Fife.
I think that from the above, you would agree with me that there is a need for a more in-depth examination of these children. I will do that in due course, hence my suggestion that you don't pencil in any data just yet. What we are seeing is the names and approximate birth dates of the children, and that is just "fairly rough" data at this stage of the exercise.
Kind Regards,
Tom.
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tommacgregor
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1248
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Hello All,
A few postings back, I made mention of Isobell Burt who was born on the 8th January, 1665 at Dunfermline in Fife to Edward Burt and his wife Janet Hadstoun who had married on the 2nd of May, 1648 at Dunfermline in Fife.
In order to satisy those descendants of the union between Isobell and her husband, James Wilson, I give the following information:
James Wilson was born about 1663 at Dunfermline in Fife and married Isobell Burt on the 3rd July, 1684.
Again, I have not fully researched the entire family of the couple since, at this stage of the exercise I am merely giving you a feel for the development of the Burt family as a whole.
Their children, (or at least some of them) were:
David Wilson born 9th February, 1687 in Dunfermline, Fife.
Janet Wilson born 2nd May, 1689 at Dunfermline, Fife.
Patrick Wilson born 19th December, 1693 at Dunfermline.
For researchers of the Wilson's, I would advise you to keep this record in a safe place, because it will be used when researching the Wilson family at some future date.
Kind Regards,
Tom.
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tommacgregor
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1248
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello All,
A few postings ago I mentioned one of the children of John Burt and Agnes Annas Whyte (White). This was William Burt who was born on the 6th of May, 1683 at Dunfermline in Fife and married Sarah Trotter on 14th October, 1702. One of their children was Andrew Burt who was born on the 15th March, 1709 at Kaistock (spelling!) and married an Isabell Wilson on Christmas Day 1730 at Dunfermline.Researchers of the Wilson and the JAP (Jape) families will be interested to discover that Isaell was the daughter of Edward Wilson and Christian Jap (Jape). As I have said, I will be looking at this connection with the Wilson family in some future posting.
Their children were:
William Burt born 2nd January, 1732 at Dunfermline, Fife.
Andrew Burt christened 25th July, 1733 at Dunfermline, Fife.
Edward Burt christened 11th April, 1734 at Dunfermline, Fife
Christian Burt christened 16th December, 1736 at Kaistock (spelling) Dunfermline, Fife.
Robert Burt christened 5th August, 1739 at Dunfermline, Fife.
Isabell Burt chistened 28th December, 1740 at Dunfermline, Fife.
Andrew Burt christened 13th October, 1743 at Kaistock (spelling) Dunfermline, Fife.
Sarah Burt christened 28th May, 1746 at Dunfermline, Fife.
William Burt christened 14th May, 1747 at Dunfermline, Fife.
James Burt christened 28th March 1749 at Dunfermline, Fife.
Peter Burt christened 4th March, 1753 at Pitferren, Dunfermline, Fife.
George Burt christened 3rd May, 1756 at Dunfermline, Fife.
As you will see, we have already advanced about 100 years, but there is still a long way to go. Although the foundations have been laid, there is a clear need to carry out more intensive searches of the various individuals named. I leave researchers to do that, although I will be returning again and again to add to these initial postings.
Kind Regards,
Tom.
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tommacgregor
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1248
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello All,
In my previous posting I made mention of Peter Burt, the son of Andrew Burt and Isabell Wilson. He was born on the 2nd of March, 1753 at Pitferren, Dunfermline in Fife. He eventally passed away at Kaistock in Fife.
Peter married a Christian PENMAN, (now, where have we seen that name before?), on the 29th of October, 1784 at Dunfermline in Fife. I will not go into specific detail of Christian apart from the fact that she was the daughter of Alexander PENMAN and Janet Trotter. To do otherwise would be going back on my word to the Moderator, Pam, and I have no intention of doing that.
To whet your appetite whilst I have a spot of tea I will tell you that Peter and Christian had a son named Peter Burt who was born on 11th December, 1795 and he was born at Rumblingwell in Dunfermline.
Peter was married twice and this has led to some confusion in your Family Tree's. He married Ann Allan on the 6th of March, 1813 at Baldridge in Dunfermline and then Isabell SPOWART (or Stewart?) on the 12th of March, 1817 at Blackburn Parish in Dunfermline,
Now, I think I can see why you were experiencing some difficulties! I will get back to you after I do a bit more research for you on this particular individual.
Kind Regards,
Tom.
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« Last Edit: Monday 25 February 08 08:02 GMT (UK) by tommacgregor »
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tommacgregor
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1248
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello All,
To resume with my look at Peter Burt, who was born on 2nd March, 1753 at Pitferren in Dunfermline. He was the son of Andrew Burt and Isabell Wilson and married Helen Penman on the 29th of October, 1784 at Dunfermline. Helen's parents were Alexander Penman and Janet Trotter. Alexander was born on the 19th July, 1734 at Urquhart in Dunfermline and his parents were Robert Penman and Margaret Paton.
The children of Peter Burt and Christian Penman were:
Andrew Burt born 6th September, 1785 at Berrielaw, Dunfermline.
Alexander Burt born 29th December, 1786 at Dunfermline, Fife.
Janet Burt born 2nd January, 1789 at Berrielaw, Dunfermline, Fife.
Janet Burt born about 1791 at Berrielaw, Dunfermline, Fife.
Peter Burt born 11th December, 1795 at Rumblingwell, Dunfermline, Fife.
Nelly Burt born 15th July, 1803 at Blackburn, Dunfermline, Fife.
Kind Regards,
Tom.
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tommacgregor
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1248
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello All,
This evening I'm going to take a look at Andrew Burt, the son of William Burt and Sarah Trotter. He was born on the 15th March, 1709 at Kaistock in Dunfermline. He married Isabell Wilson on Christmas Day, 1730 at Dunfermline in Fife. Isabell was the daughter of Edward Wilson and Christian JAP (or Jape).Their children were:
William Burt christened13th January, 1732 at Dunfermline, Fife.
Andrew Burt christened 25th July, 1733 at Dunfermline, Fife.
Edward Burt christened 11th April, 1734 at Dunfermline, Fife.
Christian Burt christened 16th December, 1736 at Kaistock, Dunfermline.
Robert Burt christened 5th August 1739 at Dunfermline, Fife.
Isabell Burt christened 28th December, 1740 at Kaistock, Dunfermline, Fife.
Andrew Burt christened 13th October, at Dunfermline, Fife.
Sarah Burt christened 28th May, 1746 at Kaistock, Dunfermline, Fife.
William Burt christened 14th May, 1747 at Kaistock, Dunfermline, Fife.
James Burt chrisened 28th March, 1749 at Kaistock, Dunfermline, Fife.
Peter Burt christened 4th March, 1753 at Pitferren, Dunfermline, Fife.
George Burt christened 3rd May, 1756 at Dunfermline, Fife.
In my next posting I shall be looking at Peter Burt, the son of Peter Burt and his wife Christian Penman.
Kind Regards,
Tom.
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tommacgregor
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1248
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello All,
This morning I spent some time scanning some details in my personal files and shook my head in disbelief at some of the pencilled notes that I had made. No wonder that poor "Beans" had got her Family Tree into such a mess! Well, never mind, "Beans", I believe that at the end of my postings for today, you will be able to see a record of your ancestors that you haven't seen before and so you will be able to take out that new box of pencils and smooth out your Ancestral Charts ready to commence the task of inserting information that can be used as a foundation to do a lot more researching as well as connecting the information to those other members of your family that I have posted details about.
Peter Burt was born on the 11th of December, 1795 at Rumblingwell, Dunfermline to his parents, Peter Burt and Christian Penman. Now, the first "snag" that I hit was the correct name of the lady that he married, since the records that I was examining didn't appear to be very clear. In order not to cause any unintentional confusion, I wont go into detail on this posting.
Peter Burt married Isabella Stewart on the 12th of March, 1817 at Blackburn, Dunfermline in Fife, (she died/was buried on 5th January 1846 at Dunfermline). Perhaps there is a possibility that researchers can get a copy of her Death Certificate.
Their children were:
Joseph Burt born 1819 at Dunfermline.
Alexander Burt born 10th March, 1821 at Southlevens (spelling?) Dunfermline
Isabella Burt born in 1826 Southlethens (spelling) Dunfermline
David Burt born 18th February, 1827 Southlethens (spelling) Dunfermline.
Andrew Burt born 18th August, 1829 at Townhill, Dunfermline.
Thomas Burt born 20th December, 1831 at Townhill, Dunfermline.
Now, where I may need some assistance from the more senior members of RootsChat is this knotty little problem: Is it possible that Peter had actually married before his marriage to Isabella Stewart? The reason that I say that, is that I have details from an Ancestral File that states that Peter Burt, born 11th December, 1795 at Rumblingwell, Dunfermline, son of Peter Burt and Christian Penman, had married an Annie Allan, the daughter of David Allan and Margaret Wilson, on the 6th of March, 1813 at Baldridge in Dunfermline. The fruits of that marriage were the births of their children William and Margaret Burt.
William Dalziel Burt born 20th October, 1815 at Venturefair, Dunfermline
Margaret Burt born 30th March, 1814 at Baldridge, Dunfermline.
I'm sure that "Beans" will be interested to know that Margaret died on the 9th August , 1874 at Salt Lake City in the good old USA.
Now, it looks perfectly feasible to me that there were two marriages. The dates of the two marriages and the birthdates of the children would appear to make such two marriages entirely possible. I would wnt oher researchers out there to do a little bit more "digging" using the leads that I have given you above.
Phew! that was one helluva exercise and deserving of a cup of tea!
Kind Regards,
Tom.
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tommacgregor
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1248
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Hello Again,
Back to the drawing board! Now, researchers will be able to follow me into the next part of the history of the Burts knowing that they will have to beware of such things as second marriages and members of the family marrying the sisters and/or brothers of a nearby family. I can hear the groans from here, but I assure you that this kind of researching as sure as Hell beats the dry as dust stuff that we all have to plough through!
Peter Burt, who was born on the 2nd March, 1753 at Pitferren, Dunfermline, was the son of Andrew Burt and Isabella Wilson (maybe that Christian Name should be Isobel?). He married Christian Penman, the daughter of Alexander Penman and Jane Trotter on the 29th October, 1784 at Dunfermline in Fife.
They had the following children:
Andrew Burt born 6th September, 1785 at Berrielaw, Dunfermline.
Alexander Burt born 29th December, 1786 at Berrielaw, Dunfermline. He went on to marry Isabella Allan.
Janet Burt born 2nd January, 1789 at Berrielaw, Dunfermline.
Peter Burt born 11th December, 1795 at Rumblingwell, Dunfermline. He was the subject of my last posting and is thought by me to have married Ann Allan and Isabella Stewart.
Eleanor or Helen (commonly called Nelly!) Burt born 15th July, 1803 at Blackburn, Dunfermline.
I'm sure that you would have noted the names Isabella Allan and Ann Allan. Perhaps you would like to follow up any connection there.
Kind Regards,
Tom.
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sancti
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Posts: 1327
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Tom, regarding the marriage(s) of Peter Burt, the OPR's on SP have 5 marriage records in Fife for the name Peter Burt.
23/01/1809 BURT PETER EUPHAN COWPER/FR3277 M Dunfermline /FIFE
06/03/1812 BURT PETER ANN ALLAN/FR3307 M Dunfermline /FIFE
30/10/1815 BURT PETER MARY PHILP/FR3341 M Dunfermline /FIFE
12/03/1817 BURT PETER ISABEL SPOUART/FR3358 M Dunfermline /FIFE
08/08/1830 BURT PETER ANN DUNSYRE/ M Wemyss /FIFE
The record you provided as Isabella Stewart appears as Isabel Spouart. Are the sources you are using 'submitted' records? Is it possibly a mis-transcription for Stuart/Stewart or is it Spowart which you have mentioned in the past?
I have checked for births to this couple and it seems to confirm Spowart not Stewart
10/03/1821 BURT ALEXANDER PETER BURT/ISABELLA SPOWART FR3580 M Dunfermline /FIFE
18/08/1829 BURT ANDREW PETER BURT/ISABELLA SPOWART FR3862 M Dunfermline /FIFE
18/02/1827 BURT DAVID PETER BURT/ISABELLA SPOWART FR3784 M Dunfermline /FIFE
20/12/1831 BURT THOMAS PETER BURT/ISABELLA SPOWART FR3924 M Dunfermline /FI
Note to Beans, while checking those birth I came across some born to PETER BURT/ANNE DRYLIE
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tommacgregor
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1248
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello "Sancti",
Many thanks for your kindness in going on to S.P. Yes, I was painfully aware of thisIsabella Stewart/Spowart thing and tried to warn other people about it. It really seems to be a bit of a problem. As I said in my previous posting, the different children makes me see stars! What could be a wy of checking on Isabella Stewart is to look at her death details. She was supposed to have been buried at Dunfermline on the 5th January, 1846. If her Death Certificate does sy that her husband really was Peter Burt, then maybe I can go back to sleep agai.
Kind Regards,
Tom.
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sancti
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I dont think there are death records pre 1855.
I checked SP and there are no Peter Burt/Stewart marriages between 1720 - 1854 anywhere in Scotland
The marriage and births do say Burt/Spowart
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tommacgregor
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Posts: 1248
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Hello again, "Sancti",
Maybe another way of solving it is to look at:
Joseph Burt born 1819 at Dunfermline
Alexander Burt born 10th March, 1821 at Southlethens, Dunfermline
Isabella Burt born 1826 at Soutlethens, Dunfermline
David Burt born 18th February, 1827 at Southlethens, Dunfermline.
If SP has picked up those births, then it should tell us who their parents were. If one of the parents is Peter Burt, then it should also show who his wife was.
Again, I did invite other researchers to have a long, hard look at the conflicting data, and I think that it's really kind of you to carry out a more intensive search. Since Joseph, Alexander, Isabella and David Burt certainly existed, then they must have had parents! The problem appears to be in the name of their Mum. Now, isn't that a turn-up for the books, since I was always taught that you always know who your Mum was, but your Dad? I'll probably get a rap over the knuckles for that 'tongue-in-cheek" remark from Monica, but she know's me my now - totally incorrigible!
Again, very many thanks for your assistance - it's greatly appreciated.
Tom.
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