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Author
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Topic: Are they gypsies? (Read 2843 times)
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wood_gnome
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 28
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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Hi, I've traced my family tree on my mother's side back to 1777 and on all the census returns say they were either Cutlers, Tinplate workers, Tinners, Hawkers or Pedlars. On my grandfather and grandmother's death certificates it says they were licensed hawkers my grandfather was called Harry Hunter and my grandmother was called Esther Ann Banks. Does this mean they were gypsies?
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Vickers, Hunter, Stewart, Allen,Taylor, Page, Galloway, Jowett, Croft, Stocks, Harrison, Furbank, Grey -
Yorkshire
Banks, Stewart, Allen, McHugh, Bluett, Casey - Lancashire
Hunter,Stewart, Armstrong - Cumbria
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wood_gnome
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 28
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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Hi, Pollynation, My mother who is 80 said when she went to school everybody used to call them dirty gypos and spit on them. By that time they had stopped living in caravans and were living in a house she said her older brothers and sisters said they were gypsies and they used to travel around Yorkshire and Lancashire and Durham. I'm related to the Hull Cunninghams and the Leeds Crowther's. When my uncle Harry Hunter died in 1965 in Leeds loads of gypsies came to his funeral. So when my grandmother Esther Ann Hunter died in 1986 my aunty dare not put it in the Yorkshire Evening Post as she didn't want lots of gypsies turning up for her funeral as they did for my uncle Harry. She's a bit of a snob is my aunty.
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Vickers, Hunter, Stewart, Allen,Taylor, Page, Galloway, Jowett, Croft, Stocks, Harrison, Furbank, Grey -
Yorkshire
Banks, Stewart, Allen, McHugh, Bluett, Casey - Lancashire
Hunter,Stewart, Armstrong - Cumbria
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wood_gnome
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 28
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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Hi, Pollynation, Like you say they don't like paperwork, I found out they were gypsies when I was 15. I started talking to a old man where I was working in Leeds this was in 1962 and he said I didn't know you were Esther Ann's grandson he said I used to live opposite her in Manchester I said she was born in Yorkshire he said her name is Esther Ann Banks her mother was called Ellen (Minnie) Banks on account of her size and they were all gypsies said they aren't he said take it from me lad there all gypsies. So when I got home from work I went to my grandma's house and said this bloke at work said your a gypsy and you were born in Manchester she said whats his name I said Harold Taylor she said tell him he doesn't know what he's talking about silly old fool. So I did he said take it from me lad there all gypsies even your mother. So when I started searching a couple of years ago the first thing I did was look up Esther Ann Banks and found everything the old lad had told me was true so I got my grandma's birth, marriage and death certificate and her death certificate was signed by my aunty.
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Vickers, Hunter, Stewart, Allen,Taylor, Page, Galloway, Jowett, Croft, Stocks, Harrison, Furbank, Grey -
Yorkshire
Banks, Stewart, Allen, McHugh, Bluett, Casey - Lancashire
Hunter,Stewart, Armstrong - Cumbria
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ankerdine
RootsChat Senior
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Posts: 479
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello
The word gypsy stood out at me. Some of my ancestors were "tinsmiths" so I was interested and very amused by your stories.
You should read Jessie Smith's Trilogy of stories of the travelling people in Scotland. Even though they are set in the 1900s some of the stories are great fun and an insight into the world of itinerants.
My great-aunt was snubbed by some relatives in the 1960s when she started hawking flowers from her back garden. I think she had started with a bit of dementia and thought she was back as a child. It was very sad 'cause she was a sweet old lady.
I know a Crowther in Leeds. Well, just you wait till we meet up with him again!
Have fun on this site, it's really great and everyone tries to help as much as they can.
Bye for now,
Judy
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Marshall, Williamson, Blair, Hoggart(h): Creetown, Stranraer, Dalrymple, Auchinleck, Coylton
Saxton, Brown, Sketchley: Nottingham, Rutland, Leicestershire
Bradbury, Turner: Walsall
McColville, Halliday: Northern Ireland
Hawker, Davies: Aston, Birmingham
Silvers: Dudley, Worcestershire
Blakemore: Black Country
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behindthefrogs
RootsChat Marquessate
Offline
Posts: 3418
EDLIN
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Hi Wood_gnome
the answer is not neccasarily. A hawker was someone who went around, most likely with a cart, selling things. What we would call today a travelling salesman.
Best wishes
Pauline
A travelling salesman is someone who represents a particular company and goes round shops and other companies taking bulk orders. More usually called a representative in recent years.
A hawker is usually a door knocker selling individual items to householders. Although in the past he would also have been allowed to sell in the streets possibly from a cart.
David
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Living in Berkshire. Origin Northampton & Milton Keynes DETAILS OF THE FOLLOWING NAMES CAN BE FOUND IN SURNAME INTERESTS AT FOOT OF PAGE Wilson, Higgs, Buswell, PARCELL, Matthews, TAMKIN, Seckington, Pates, Williams, Webb, Arthur, MAYNARD, Caves, Norman, Winch, Culverhouse, Drakeley. Johnson, Routledge, SHIRT, SAICH, Mills, SAUNDERS, EDLIN, Perry, Vickers, Pakeman, Griffiths, Marston, Turner, Child, Sheen, Gray, Woolhouse Census Info is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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wood_gnome
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 28
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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Hi Judy, My Uncle Thomas Hunter married Ellen Crowther in Leeds in 1938 he died in 1955 but my cousin Tommy Hunter has a outside stall in Leeds market selling lino as far as i know it's still there according to one of my sister's.
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Vickers, Hunter, Stewart, Allen,Taylor, Page, Galloway, Jowett, Croft, Stocks, Harrison, Furbank, Grey -
Yorkshire
Banks, Stewart, Allen, McHugh, Bluett, Casey - Lancashire
Hunter,Stewart, Armstrong - Cumbria
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wood_gnome
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 28
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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Hi, When I was 8 or 9 years old I was staying at my grandma's house in Leeds I lived in Gloucester then. I was sat in my grandma's my mother was there and my great aunty Bella and a truck pulling a caravan pulled up outside and this woman came into my grandma's she had had gold half sovereigns hanging from her ears hanging round her neck and wrist there was kisses and hugs alround and it turned out she was my grandad's sister she was my great aunt Sarah Ann Hunter and they were on their way to Doncaster. When she had gone I said to my mother is she a gypsy and she said don't be silly. A bit later on I was earwiging and they were saying "I thought they would have parked at the back of the house so people wouldn't notice.
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Vickers, Hunter, Stewart, Allen,Taylor, Page, Galloway, Jowett, Croft, Stocks, Harrison, Furbank, Grey -
Yorkshire
Banks, Stewart, Allen, McHugh, Bluett, Casey - Lancashire
Hunter,Stewart, Armstrong - Cumbria
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wood_gnome
RootsChat Extra
Offline
Posts: 28
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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Hi Pollynation, I know lots of gypsies in Leeds. I know the Smiths, Cunninghams, James, Lees, Buxtons, Lowthers, Dohertys and Dorans.
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Vickers, Hunter, Stewart, Allen,Taylor, Page, Galloway, Jowett, Croft, Stocks, Harrison, Furbank, Grey -
Yorkshire
Banks, Stewart, Allen, McHugh, Bluett, Casey - Lancashire
Hunter,Stewart, Armstrong - Cumbria
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wood_gnome
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 28
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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Update. On my Grandfather's and Grandmother's marriage certificate it says they were living at 11 Winker Green. I've since been in contact with someone who's mother lived at Winker Green at the same time and his mother said she remembers the Hunter family she said they lived in a caravan on Brick Field behind the houses at Winker Green she said they moved in to number 11 after their caravan caught fire and their child died in the fire.
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Vickers, Hunter, Stewart, Allen,Taylor, Page, Galloway, Jowett, Croft, Stocks, Harrison, Furbank, Grey -
Yorkshire
Banks, Stewart, Allen, McHugh, Bluett, Casey - Lancashire
Hunter,Stewart, Armstrong - Cumbria
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welsh lady
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1293
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Hi everyone my Great Aunt visited today a very young 94,and was interested in what was said on this thread,And wanted me to put in a little note of what she remembers when she was a child.Her Father was a Romani although her Mother was not.She was brought up in a caravan until she was 12.They travelled around looking for work.
It is not only Gaje(Non Romani People) who looked down on other" Gypsy "Familes.Her Father would never ever call himself a Gypsy he was a Roma from Romani descent and there for in his eyes not the same as the Irish Travellers or Travellers from anywhere else.However Tinker was also used as a deragatory word back then to.Also Romani have their own language .She recalls her Father was a very proud man you never took charity ,you were always smartly turned out,Her hair and her sisters braided at all times, and the caravan was spotless and very ornate lots of brass and ornaments and he would not Trust anyone outside the Romani people as they were not treated very nicely outside the camps that they use to stay at.However once her Father died and her Mother remarried she was never allowed to speak Romani or mention her roots to anyone.Hopefully times have changed.
Welsh Lady
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This information is Crown Copyright,from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukAmor/Amer-Bromham Wiltshire,Hertfordshire,Suffolk. Pyett-Suffolk Wolfenden-Cambridgeshire,Huntingdonshire Bird,Nash-Essex. Anderson,-London.Bethnal Green,Shoreditch,Hackney King-,Uxbridge,Shoreditch,Bethnal Green Edwards,Roberts,Lane,Price,Williams-Llanelli. Roberts-Pembroke Dock |
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wood_gnome
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 28
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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Hi Welsh Lady, in the sixties I was sat in my Grandmother's house and she was watching the local news and Tommy Doherty came on claiming to be King of the Gypsies, my Grandmother jumped out of her chair and started shouting at the TV saying your nothing but a bunch of Hedgehoppers and some other words that I couldn't understand it was like a foreign language to me, I said he can't hear you, she was in her seventies then. She died when she was 94.
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Vickers, Hunter, Stewart, Allen,Taylor, Page, Galloway, Jowett, Croft, Stocks, Harrison, Furbank, Grey -
Yorkshire
Banks, Stewart, Allen, McHugh, Bluett, Casey - Lancashire
Hunter,Stewart, Armstrong - Cumbria
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