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Topic: TREWARTHA Baptism Lookup please (Read 1469 times)
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kilmartin
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I wonder whether anyone would be able to check the Baptism record for Lavinia Trewartha baptised 13 Oct 1833 in St Hilary. Her parents were William Trewartha and Elizabeth Hitchens. What I'm hoping to discover is William's profession at the time as this may help to explain why the family left Cornwall.
Also looking for Elizabeth Ann Trewartha born c1831 Penzance and Mary Jane Trewartha born c1827 Falmouth area - possibly St Blazey.
Hoping someone can help me with this.
Kilmartin
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Bill749
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crowdin' 60 and still wearin' genes!
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Can't help with your query but I was at college in the '60s with a chap called Rick Trewartha from Perranporth. 
Bill
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Banks, Beer, Bowes, Castle, Cloak, Coachworth, Dixon, Farr, Golder, Graves, Hicks, Hogbin, Holmans, Marsh, Mummery, Nutting, Pierce, Rouse, Sawyer, Sharp, Snell, Willis: mostly in East Kent. Ey, Sawyer: London Evans: Ystradgynlais, Wales Snell: Snettisham, Norfolk Knight, Burgess, Ellis: Hampshire Purdy: Ireland/Canada/Durham/Pennsylvania McCann: Ireland Morrow: Pennsylvania Sparnon: any Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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krisesjoint
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Hi kilmartin,
If noone is able to view the register for you, you may find that, since you have an exact date and parish for the event, that by emailing the CRO with the information you have, they may lookup the additional information from the entry for you at no charge. 
They can certainly provide printouts of any entries required for a small charge. The same hangling fee applies regardless of the number of printouts requested, so if you would like printouts for your records it may pay to order multiple enties at the same time.
http://www.cornwall.gov.uk/index.cfm?articleid=38210
Perhaps this is Mary's baptism
TREWARTHA Mary Jane baptised 20 Apr 1825 St Gluvias parents William and Elizabeth (St Gluvias is in the Falmouth District, where St Blazey is in the St Austell District)
Cheers Kris 
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kilmartin
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Thanks Kris that is a helpful suggestion, I hadn't realise that the CRO would have the resources to do such a check. I'll give it a go.
Regards
Kilmartin
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deb usa
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There has to be royalty somewhere!
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Hi all
I have been looking around for this family . I see they are in Wales in 1851. Their son William was b c 1839 in Cardiff, Glamorgan. I was thinking that if we could find them in the 1841, Wales , William snr. may state his occupation as something other than a Policeman .
I have trawled through the 1841 ,Wales to no avail ....
Another thought ...If we could find his, William Snr.'s , family in Cornwall we may find everyone having the same occupation.
deb
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penfold, orchard, james , richards (travellers/romanies)
middleton, waterfield, skinner,adams, bray (devon, tiverton,silverton areas)
palmer,slack, smith, carnarton (cornwall)
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kilmartin
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Hi Deb,
Thanks for your interest.
This branch of Trewartha's were in Wales by 1841. William has been found to have been either a Turnkey, Policeman or Postmaster throughout his time in Cardiff and Monmouthshire. I was just hoping that his occupation might have been recorded on the christening record of one of his daughters (Lavinia in St Hilary seems definately correct) - this profession may then help to confirm possibly the St Gluvias christening of Mary Jane (assuming he wasn't a miner!).
One of the problems with William Trewartha is attaching him to the correct Trewartha family in Cornwall. At his marriage in St Clement in 1823 he was described as being of Kenwyn. There is a possible christening for him in Gwennap in 1799. But there was also another William Trewartha who married Elizabeth Barratt in 1822 in Gwennap who may have been this William Trewartha.
So there were at least two William and Elizabeth Trewartha's producing children at around the same time in Cornwall. I was hoping that by finding my William's profession it might help to confirm the family groupings - and possibly other clues to his family (a long shot, I know). Incidentally ancestry.com gives William born c1800 Truro in 1851 and c1799 Cranbash(!?) in 1861. As he was living in Wales I was trying to imagine what place might have sounded like Cranbash to the Welsh!
Kilmartin
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krisesjoint
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Hi kilmartin,
Looking at that 61 entry it looks like Crantask to me. I do believe that is in fact a t and not a b. the next 2 letters look to be a and s. Now to me the last letter is a k not a h. I realise that gives me Crantask which does not exist either - but it is horribly like Crantock which is what hit me when I first looked at it before analyzing the letters - and Crantock, I do hold the microfiche for
Now examining the fiche I see 
William the son of William and Jane TREWARTHA was baptised Crantock 9 Dec 1798
Mary Ann 25 Nov 1800
Now I believe that marriage took place in St Clement
William TREWARTHA of Fowey = Jane MARTYN by Licence 30 Jul 1794
Jane was a Crantock girl baptised 6 Oct 1770 Crantock the daughter of Thomas and Anne
The Martyn family were a well respected family among the Gentry of Crantock and St Columb Minor. (probably explains why the marriage was by licence, common among The Gentry) This family would certainly not be marrying miners.
29 Jul 1766.....MARTYN Thomas Bachelor of Crantock = KING Anne Spinster OTP by Licence dated May 27 1766 St Columb Minor Both Signed. Witnesses: Samuel Martyn and John Martyn.
Most of the Martyn's were Farmers and Merchants (even the odd Doctor or two)
Do you have the full entry for the 1823 marriage? I am curious as to witnesses - also could William read and write? (Policeman, Post Master - I am betting he could, particularly if he was Jane Martyn's son) As you say, curious about his occupation at the time of Lavinia's birth. I do see this Gwennap Miner married to an Elizabeth. (They seem to stay around Gwennap) If your man is who I think he might be, there is no way I can see his occupation would be a miner.
Cheers Kris
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kilmartin
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Wow, what can I say. At long last it looks like William Trewartha fits into Cornwall.
William Trewartha died age 70 Jun q 1869 in Newport, Monmouthshire district. This is consistent with a christening date of 9 Dec 1798.
Unfortunately, I do not have the witness names for the 1823 marriage. But I do have some circumstantial evidence which makes this link seem good. Another descendent of William Trewartha has a photo of a Joseph Martyn in the Yeomanry (formerly Captain 7th (The Queens Own) Hussars from Victorian times) - he was supposidly some sort of relative. It was recalled that on visits to Cornwall in the early c20th, a grand house behind a high wall was pointed out as a former family residence - the location of which has been lost in time. Your information regarding the Martyn's and their connections makes this seem a reliable memory.
I had thought that Elizabeth Hitchens (wife of William) was christened in Redruth (26 Dec 1797) to William and Mary. Any idea whether this Hitchens family are likely to have married the Trewatha/Martyns?
Thank you very much Kris for your input - it is very much appreciated.
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krisesjoint
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Hi kilmartin,
Thomas Martyn (a yeoman) died when Jane was only a child 1780 so his will will not help with Trewartha but will certainly list his holdings.
http://crocat.cornwall.gov.uk/dserve/DServe.exe?dsqApp=Archive&dsqCmd=Index.tcl
I know some of the properties in the hands of members of the Martyn family in Crantock were Tregunnel (Jane's Brother's family) Penpol, Trevemper and I am sure many, many more. A grand house behind a high wall certainly sounds likely.
Joseph in 7th Hussars, I can't put my finger on but Joseph is certainly a family name. Jane's Grandfather was Joseph. Her brother William had a son Joseph King Martyn in 1807. Certainly sounds like we are onto something here, doesn't it.
Checking for William Trewartha Wills seems mainly Gwennap. Any likely baptisms on IGI were Gwennap. So we see there were William Trewartha's who were Yeomen in Gwennap previously. (The Redruth one isn't him, I wondered - 1826 but found that burial - he was 21)
Interesting as far as Burials there is a Jane buried Kenwyn 1830, the problem is her age. Lists her as 54 where she should be 60. I find these educated members of the gentry are usually very accurate with ages, just had to wonder with your William listing Kenwyn at marriage.
Now I realised I mucked up the name yesterday. With only the two baptisms listed I looked for burials and I did notice that buried on the same day as Mary Ann's baptism was Mary TREWATHA (No R) I looked back at the two baptisms and there is no r in those either. (Williams a little indecisive, but Mary Ann's clearly no r) Another point of interest is baptised on the same day directly under Mary Ann's baptism I note
Mary Trewatha BRAY daughter of William and Ann Bray (Or I think that is the surname)
No idea if or what the connection may be there - and with this burial being on the same day, unfortunately nothing else is mentioned. We do often see in these pre-form burials that it will be stated with a child as son/dau of. This fellow did not do it as I see none listed as children and some of the burials during this era must have been. The baptism lists Mary Ann, the burial lists just Mary so looks like it was probably not the same person. An earlier daughter named Mary is a possibility I guess (or some other connection) Just thought it was worth mentioning.
I think printouts of those two St Clement marriages should be the next step here. Do you know what the Hitchins family did?
Kris
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deb usa
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There has to be royalty somewhere!
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Hi Kris
can you see them anywhere on the 1841 ... i am thinking that it would give us an idea of what his occupation was upon leaving Cornwall. His youngest son , in 1851 was b c 1837 ... he must have moved his family just prior to that as the second to last child was born in Cornwall . Also , because of the family 'connections' it seems as though he did not have to move because of a mine closing and there being no work for him .
I cannot find them ...you would think that with a daughter named Lavinia, they would be easy to spot  
was something going on that he had to whisk his wife and kids off to Wales?!
deb
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penfold, orchard, james , richards (travellers/romanies)
middleton, waterfield, skinner,adams, bray (devon, tiverton,silverton areas)
palmer,slack, smith, carnarton (cornwall)
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krisesjoint
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Hi Deb,
As kilmartin mentioned he is a turnkey. (prison warder)
Police Officer in 1851 and Post Master in 1861
HO107/1425/1 Folio 37 Page 23
Hill Terrace
St John and St Mary, Cardiff
Hopefully the 1831 baptism will tell us what he was doing in Cornwall. He doesn't really sound terribly upper class here. His daughter was a straw bonnet maker. I feel that the baptism I have must be him, but if I am right, there doesn't appear to be a lot of money about by this time. The one thing I feel looking at this is that a certain degree of literacy would have been required to be a police officer and post master. If he was from a poor mining or labouring family chances would be he wouldn't have been able to read and write.............Kris
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kilmartin
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Thanks again Kris - the Martyn family do look interesting - the link is a real breakthrough - that side of the family have been quite challenging to trace with names such as Thomas and Lewis in Wales. I really thought the Trewarthas would have been more straightforward - apparently not!
There was a story from Mary Trewartha's side of the family about the Trewartha's having come upon hard times - which I guess must hold true with the Straw Bonnet making and turnkey occupations. Apparently William was listed as a Gaolor at the County Gaol on his Son William's birth certificate in 1839. It is intreaging what William did in Cornwall as he must have moved around a bit as his children were christened in different parishes.
Unfortunately I don't know much about the Hitchens side either - not a great help - sorry.
I will look at the other bits in the morning.
Kilmartin
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krisesjoint
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Kilmartin,
I see talk on IGI of births listing the Trewartha Christian name to William BRAY and Ann TREWARTHA in Kea. (mainly submitted but some extracted records)
I found that marriage
William BRAY = Ann TREWARTHA 27 Jan 1794 Kea
(No mention of either being from elsewhere at time of marriage)
Just wondering if she may be Williams sister?
Kris
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krisesjoint
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Still looking and and the only thing I can turn up, where siblings may match is in Gwennap
William TREWARTHA 1 Sep 1771 Parents James and Mary
Ann TREWARTHA 31 Jul 1774 Parents James and Mary
Only likely marriage I can see
James TREWARTHA = Mary GOLDSWORTHY 27 Aug 1769 Feock
Kris
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kilmartin
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I wonder if you could be right, Feock is not that far from St Gluvias, St Clement or Kea. Most Trewarthas seem to connect back to the Gwennap area eventually from previous research into the name. Naturally, there are a few Trewarthas which are not obvious where they connect - such as my William Trewartha and his descendents.
No one seems to have accounted for William (1771) son of William Trewartha and Mary Goldsworthy - so he possibly could have been the William to marry Jane Martyn. William (1768) appears to have married a Sarah Oxford and had a son William later than my William (1798) Crantock - this rules him out.
James Trewartha and Mary Goldsworthy had 3 children christened in Gwennap - Mary (1770), William (1771) and Ann (1774) - I wonder whether they had more elsewhere.
I do not know about William Trewartha Bray but being in the same part of Cornwall (South of Truro), possibly his mother Ann Trewartha was William Trewartha's sister. Again I can not spot her being linked into another family.
One thing that puzzles me is would a Martyn marry a miner? Probably not. I don't know what James Trewartha did but his Grandfather, yet another William Trewartha, married at St. Gluvias in 1703 to Catherine King and was a Yeoman. Maybe this branch of Trewarthas were still yeoman when William married Jane Martyn. That would make more sense.
Incidentally the father of James Trewartha, yet another William Trewartha married Mary Bishop in 1729 in Gwennap - her father was the vicar there apparently.
It seems like we may have cracked this line. Any opinions?
Kilmartin
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