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Author Topic: Missing Minnie in Norfolk  (Read 516 times)
Clouder
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Missing Minnie in Norfolk
« on: Wednesday 05 March 08 09:29 GMT (UK) »
I have a marriage for Minnie Elizabeth Churchill and Alfred Homewood in 1895 in Kensington. Also have Minnie on the 1901 census living with Alfred and 2 children in Paddington.
On the census image of 1901 she is 34 (b1867) and born in Besthorpe, which I believe is in Norfolk.  I cannot seem to find her anywhere else. Nor a birth.
Can anyone see her on any census 1871/18/91 for Norfolk.  Do not know parents sorry or anything else.
Any help appreciated.
Many thanks. SUE.
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WELCH/WELSH/WALSH. Kilkenny, Ireland. Glamorgan, Sth Wales.
CLOUDER, All. BARRETT, Sittingbourne Kent. O'NEIL, Lancs/Staffordshire. SMITHER, Greenwich. LACEY, Surrey.
suffolk*sue
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Re: Missing Minnie in Norfolk
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 05 March 08 09:45 GMT (UK) »
Do you have the marriage cert?
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Clouder
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Re: Missing Minnie in Norfolk
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 05 March 08 10:18 GMT (UK) »
Hello there.  Thank you for your reply.
No certificate only matched Husband and wife on FREEBMD.  Although  Minnies granddaughter will be in England in late may. So she is planning a trip to the National Archives then. (Lives in New Zealand) Just thought I would see if there was a family in or near Besthorpe on any census. I have only found a Minnie E Churchill in 1881 born in Bristol in 1873.  Would be too easy to have wrong birth place and year!!!! on a census image.  Not the first I have found.. Drove me nuts for ages.
Could be have to wait until May. 
Regards. SUE.
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WELCH/WELSH/WALSH. Kilkenny, Ireland. Glamorgan, Sth Wales.
CLOUDER, All. BARRETT, Sittingbourne Kent. O'NEIL, Lancs/Staffordshire. SMITHER, Greenwich. LACEY, Surrey.
Suziesmith37
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Re: Missing Minnie in Norfolk
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 05 March 08 10:26 GMT (UK) »
There is also a Besthorpe in Nottinghamshire near Newark

Su
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Pat. side:Barker, Richards. Williams, Brewer, Chapman, Pascoe, Hill - St.Keverne, Redruth, Cornwall
Mat. side:Thomas, Richards, Viant  - Falmouth, Padstow,Redruth, Cornwall & Devon. Law - Cornwall, Wales and London
Clouder
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Re: Missing Minnie in Norfolk
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 05 March 08 10:42 GMT (UK) »
Many thanks I'll work on that.  Never heard of Besthorpe.  She still does not match in with any births.  I wonder if Minnie could be short for another name.  I thought of Philomena or spelt with Wh but I'm sure I was spelling it wrong. I will google a baby name dictionary to see how it's spelt.
I'll let you know how I get on.
SUE.
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WELCH/WELSH/WALSH. Kilkenny, Ireland. Glamorgan, Sth Wales.
CLOUDER, All. BARRETT, Sittingbourne Kent. O'NEIL, Lancs/Staffordshire. SMITHER, Greenwich. LACEY, Surrey.
Suziesmith37
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Re: Missing Minnie in Norfolk
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 05 March 08 10:49 GMT (UK) »
Willomena perhaps, but I have heard it used as a pet name for Emily and Winnie!

I was trying to find Mr Homewood in 1891?  Do we have place of birth for him - there might be some clues?

Su
« Last Edit: Wednesday 05 March 08 14:56 GMT (UK) by Suziesmith37 » Logged
Pat. side:Barker, Richards. Williams, Brewer, Chapman, Pascoe, Hill - St.Keverne, Redruth, Cornwall
Mat. side:Thomas, Richards, Viant  - Falmouth, Padstow,Redruth, Cornwall & Devon. Law - Cornwall, Wales and London
Clouder
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Re: Missing Minnie in Norfolk
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 05 March 08 11:07 GMT (UK) »
Hi Su.
Alfred in 1891 living with parents John and Amelia Homewood. 42 Clarendon Road. Paddington. Age 7 working as a Greengrocers Assistant.  He was born in Kensington.
Minnie could be in London by 1891. 

SUE.
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WELCH/WELSH/WALSH. Kilkenny, Ireland. Glamorgan, Sth Wales.
CLOUDER, All. BARRETT, Sittingbourne Kent. O'NEIL, Lancs/Staffordshire. SMITHER, Greenwich. LACEY, Surrey.
avm228
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Missing Minnie in Norfolk
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 05 March 08 11:25 GMT (UK) »
If you don't have the marriage certificate, then presumably you don't know whether this was her first marriage or not. At 28(ish) it might not have been - so her maiden name could have been anything.

Or do you know that Churchill was her maiden name from another source - e.g. a child's birth certificate?

Anna
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Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)
Clouder
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Re: Missing Minnie in Norfolk
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 05 March 08 11:56 GMT (UK) »
Hello Anna.
Went away with your ideas. I looked on the FREBMD and found marriage of Joseph Churchill to Minnie Eliza Clayton in 1889 in Wandsworth.  Then went into 1881 census and found Minnie E Clayton age 11 born Pimlico.  Living with parents John and Jane with a sister Alice S.  Address is 53 Coleshill St. London.  11 would make her born in 1870.  On the image for 1901 she is born in 1867 in Besthorpe.  I wonder if she is on the 1871 and 1891 census for the London area.  On the 1891 she would be Churchill. Do you have access to these and if not I will post on the London thread.  No record of a Minnie anything in Norfolk.  Certainly not Besthorpe.

A great help and another avenue to go down Anna. Many thanks. SUE.
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WELCH/WELSH/WALSH. Kilkenny, Ireland. Glamorgan, Sth Wales.
CLOUDER, All. BARRETT, Sittingbourne Kent. O'NEIL, Lancs/Staffordshire. SMITHER, Greenwich. LACEY, Surrey.
avm228
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Missing Minnie in Norfolk
« Reply #9 on: Wednesday 05 March 08 12:12 GMT (UK) »
Hmmm...

Actually it looks to me as though Minnie Eliza Clayton may have married the other bridegroom on the page, Walter Morford.

Walter Morford, 26, and wife Minnie, 21 b London, are in Fulham in 1891:

RG12/54 folio 63 p28.

Will keep thinking Smiley

Anna
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Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)
avm228
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Missing Minnie in Norfolk
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday 05 March 08 12:21 GMT (UK) »
OK

The only Minnie E. whose birth registration I can find on FreeBMD (albeit it's not complete) for Wayland* registration district is Minnie E Orvice, Jun 1866 Wayland 4b 247.

At least she's the right age!  Will see whether I can find out what happened to her.

*NB Wayland is the reg district for Besthorpe, Norfolk - going with the Norfolk rather than the Notts one for now.

Anna
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Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)
avm228
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Missing Minnie in Norfolk
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday 05 March 08 12:23 GMT (UK) »
HURRAH!

Marriage, Sep 1893 Paddington

Joseph Henry CHURCHILL
Minnie Elizabeth ORVICE

on same page, 1a 104

Anna Wink
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Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)
avm228
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Missing Minnie in Norfolk
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday 05 March 08 12:27 GMT (UK) »
Minnie Orvice aged 14 (giving birthplace as Attleborough, which is very near Besthorpe) is in Paddington in 1881 with parents George and Sophia - presumably you can access that.

RG11/11 folio 134 p56

Anna
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Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)
avm228
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Missing Minnie in Norfolk
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday 05 March 08 12:30 GMT (UK) »
Possible death of Minnie's first husband after less than a year of marriage:

Joseph Henry CHURCHILL aged 31, Jun 1894 St Olave Southwark 1d 159
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Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)
avm228
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: Missing Minnie in Norfolk
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday 05 March 08 12:37 GMT (UK) »
Minnie is with parents in 1891: (NB my own transcription)

9 Amberley Mews, Paddington

George Orvice Head M 52(?)* Corn dealer Norfolk Norwich
Sophia Orvice Wife M 50 (?)* Norfolk Attleborough
Minnie Orvice Daur S 24 Dressmaker Norfolk Besthorpe

RG12/10 folio 65 p39

*Both parents' ages comprehensively struck through so don't rely on this

Anna
Logged
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)
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