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Topic: George Holmes Look up Help please (Read 469 times)
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Ironsides
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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My Great Grandfather was born in 1796 in Hampshire and married Harriet Willmore in St Marys church Portsea Island, Portsmouth on 25th October 1838.
The Problem i have is, i cannot find out the name of his father, Or Her Father. Is there anyone who could help me with this please, as i live in Cheshire.
Thank You
Pete
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tarnee
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Hi welcome to RootsChat.
Is this him
George Holmes chr 19 Jun 1794 St Mary's Portsea parents John Holmes and Ann
Jean
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Graham, Grundy, Wilson:- Birkenhead
Graham, Sharp, Hodgson, Sherwen:- Workington
Fulford,Braithwaite,Blanchard,Hackforth,Ward,White:- Lincolnshire
Seaby, Cockerill:- Northamptonshire.
Wiseman,Smith:- Warwickshire
Upton, Gentle:- Oxfordshire, Gloucestershire.
Wall, Curtis, Felts, Thoms:- Bedfordshire.
Davis, Smallman:- Shropshire.
Wilcox:- Worcestershire.
Young, Renwick:- Berwick upon Tweed.
Plante:- Stafford, Warwickshire.
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tarnee
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Posts: 668
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Harriet Willmore chr 31 May 1807 Ripe Sussex parents William Willmore and Charlotte.
children.
Frederick chr 3 Nov 1839
Ellen chr 3 Aug 1851
Edward Willmore Holmes chr 3 Aug 1851
Sarah chr 7 Sept 1851
Charlotte chr. 7 Aug 1846
Emily chr 29 Dec 1842
Elias chr 1 May 1853
Moses chr.1 May 1853
George chr 4 April 1840
All born to George Holmes and Harriet Buriton Hampshire
Source IGI
Jean
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Graham, Grundy, Wilson:- Birkenhead
Graham, Sharp, Hodgson, Sherwen:- Workington
Fulford,Braithwaite,Blanchard,Hackforth,Ward,White:- Lincolnshire
Seaby, Cockerill:- Northamptonshire.
Wiseman,Smith:- Warwickshire
Upton, Gentle:- Oxfordshire, Gloucestershire.
Wall, Curtis, Felts, Thoms:- Bedfordshire.
Davis, Smallman:- Shropshire.
Wilcox:- Worcestershire.
Young, Renwick:- Berwick upon Tweed.
Plante:- Stafford, Warwickshire.
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Ironsides
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Jean,
this again shows the same problem as i have Harriet down as being born in Goreing Sussex not ripe. The odd thing is if i go to any other name in my tree i can get back to the 1500 and the Vikings in the channel islands and beyond likewise i can get back to 1360 with another part. Nearly everyname i look at i can go back a long way but with my Holmes 1796 and then blank wall. With the help of other peoples trees which connect with mine sometimes over 2 generations, i have now got 6500 relations some of them tenuous though. But it is the Holmes side i am trying to find. I only found out yesterday though that some relations that i never new i had recently died and they where descendent's from my uncle. What a pity i left doing this for so long.
Pete
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tarnee
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Hi Pete,
Yes alot of us left it to long to start my moms been gone 30 years she would have been a wealth of information. l see you are in Cheshire l was born Birkenhead.
1881 Census Harriet Holmes age 74 cond. W. born Sussex still in Buriton RG11/1240 folio 18 page 29. She fits the one l posted maybe you should take a look.
Jean
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Graham, Grundy, Wilson:- Birkenhead
Graham, Sharp, Hodgson, Sherwen:- Workington
Fulford,Braithwaite,Blanchard,Hackforth,Ward,White:- Lincolnshire
Seaby, Cockerill:- Northamptonshire.
Wiseman,Smith:- Warwickshire
Upton, Gentle:- Oxfordshire, Gloucestershire.
Wall, Curtis, Felts, Thoms:- Bedfordshire.
Davis, Smallman:- Shropshire.
Wilcox:- Worcestershire.
Young, Renwick:- Berwick upon Tweed.
Plante:- Stafford, Warwickshire.
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Ironsides
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Jean,
How small the world is, I actually live in Moreton but was born in Bromborough. I spoke to someone the other day from New Zealand whose Father died in the road behind us and 3 houses to the left of ours 3 years ago. I also spoke to someone a couple of weeks ago who lives down the road from me and whose grandmother was my grandmothers half sister.
I think the only way i am evergoing to know about this for certain is to get one of the marriage licenses for George and Harriet. The odd thing about what you have found is that i have looked at both of these but could not be certain. i do know that from this date on i can find all the others right down to me, it is just backwards that i have problem with. I am with Genes Reunited as well as Family Search and findmypast.com & Ancestry.
Pete
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Little Nell
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Pete,
It really might be worth buying the marriage certificate of George and Harriet from 1838 - it would confirm the names of their fathers if nothing else.
In 1861 a William Willmer is lodging with them, aged 81, formerly a cordwainer, born in Pulborough. Fair bet that he is Harriet's father. Also in this census, Harriet says born Ripe, rather than Goring. In 1871 she says Pulborough!
There is a removal order at Sussex for the family of William & Charlotte Wilmer, children Charlotee(3) James (2) and Harriet (7 months) from Pulborough to Ripe.
William Wilmore married Charlotte Blaber 21 May 1804 in Ripe, both otp.
George gives his place of birth as Soberton or Hambleton/Hambledon. I'm not convinced that the Portsea baptism is the correct one. Still looking for other possibilities.
A Thomas Holmes married Elizabeth Briton in Soberton in 1795.
Nell
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Ironsides
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Nell,
thank you so much for getting back to me on this. The thing that has really annoyed me about doing this is, that it will say one thing on one Census but something different on another. How can Harriet or George have been born in more than one place. And what is a removal order, does that mean that they where forced to move or as an getting someone to do your removals, and where do you find this type of information.
I am going to apply for the Marriage Certificate today, rather than keep going around in circles. I have had some very good leads from people though and have been looking at them. I do know that one of George Holmes sons was christened about 5 years after he was born so that would make it hard but i found him. Also where do you go to get photos of the areas as i sent an email to one of the Hampshire museums actually in Catherington or Horndean and they did not even reply.
Best Wishes
Pete
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Little Nell
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Under the Poor Laws, if a person or family fell on hard times, their parish of settlement had a duty to help with poor relief. If they did not have settlement rights in the parish in which they were residing when they fell on hard times, the psrish would make every effort to remove them back to their parish of settlement.
So in this case, the family were sent from Pulborough back to Ripe. I found the entry in the catalogue database at:
http://www.a2a.org.uk
searching on Wilmer/Wilmore etc.
As far as photos are concerned, I recommend that you try the Hampshire Record Office in Winchester. They have a range of photographs. You can search their catalogue here:
http://calm.hants.gov.uk/DServeA/search.htm
Choose Digital image in the format drop down menu after you have put in your search term. Copies can be ordered.
Nell
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Ironsides
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Nell,
thank you for that, this is really great i am getting a history lesson and loving every minute of it just as i did in school. I will check everything out tomorrow but am so tired tonight that i am about to go to bed.
Best Wishes
Pete
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Ironsides
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Nell,
i am sorry it has taken me so long to get back to you but i have had a lot of problems with Adware infesting my computer and have had fun trying to clear it.
I wanted to ask you a couple of Questions about your 2nd to last email, You mentioned about a site called www.a2a.org.uk in connection with the Poor law. The question is how do you use it to find anything as i tried and could get nothing, what do you have to enter as the search parameter to get anything. Also to get Photo's from Hampshire records office what do you have to put in to get them as again i hit a brick wall.
I finall sent off for the marriage certificate and it arrived but was so poor i contacted the GRO and they said send it back and we will send you a typed copy, I think Georges fathers name was Thomas but am not 100 % certain, and can find nothing about a Thomas Holmes from about that time or 20 years before. The ones i did find had no sons by the name of George. Any Tips?
I have had 1 bit of good news though. I found out that one of my staff in the Museum where i work is my cousin, at least i think so but cannot work it out so have said she is anyway. Her grandmother was married to my grandfather.
Best Wishes
Pete
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Little Nell
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Hi Pete,
As far as the a2a site is concerned, use the link I gave to get to the home page.
Underneath the "Welcome to A2A" message and introductory paragraph is a hyperlink which says:
Click the search button to seach these catalogues
Click on the underlined link to go to the search page. (You could also click the tab, 2nd from left near the top which says Search A2A)
In the Keyword or phrase box on the next page type in the name you are searching for - I tried Wilmer first.
A page of "hits" will appear: the location of where the records are kept on the left hand side and on the far right is the number of hits within that catalogue. West Sussex came out top with 26 hits.
Click on it and you will be taken to a page which gives you the catalogue reference for the record in question. Sussex record offices have an extremely good catalogue database and you can glean quite a bit of information from this without actually physically seeing the records themselves.
The Hampshire Record Office site - I haven't explored everything fully. I find experimentation is the best! And often the less you put in as the search term, the more you get out, especially if you have to be creative with name variations. However, there are a number of photos of Horndean that you can view. I typed "Horndean" into the top box marked "Any text" left all but the "Format" box blank. In the "Format" box, click on the arrow to the right of it to see the drop down menu and choose "Digital image." Click the search button. There are 14 results for Horndean, ranging from the Lily pond to a traction engine. If you click on the number on the left-hand side of the catalogue description, you will be able to see a thumbnail of the photograph.
Hope that helps.
Let us know when you find out what George's father's name was.
Nell
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Ironsides
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Nell,
It has finally arrived, the Marriage Certificate is here and has been typed this time so i can now read it. But. It says for Georges fathers name Thomas ? and for Harriet's William ?and thats that Thomas was a Laborer and William was a Boot Maker. & there was one surprise George was a widower. I have tried everything to find anything on them but with no luck. Any advice would but greatly appreciated right now.
Thank You
Pete
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Little Nell
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That's good news - it confirms that William Willmer lodging with the family in 1861 is Harriet's father.
And I think it would be a logical lead to follow that the marriage that I found was for George's parents, Thomas & Elizabeth.
The question is: who might his first wife have been?
Three possible marriages for a George Holmes
Sarah Beach in Ringwood in 1827
Hannah White in 1833 in Portsmouth
Olive Scorey in Portsea in 1830
I don't see suitable burials for either a Sarah Holmes or Hannah Holmes before 1837. But there is one for an Olave Holmes in Twyford 7 Aug 1832. She was 32 (sorry, might have been 35  )
This might be his first wife - stress, might.
Nell
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Ironsides
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Hi Nell,
when i first saw that i thought there must be a mistake as if you look at the modern thing that is on there first is says he is 31, but when you go to the original it can only be 81 for Harriett's father which would mean that my grandfathers name must have been William Wiliner not Willmer which would account for it. I will check out Olive and see what comes up.
Thanks again Nell
Best Wishes
Pete
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