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Topic: NOY birth PR's..was this normal. (Read 892 times)
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ambers
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Posts: 628
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Kris,
I worded that badly, Mary 1804, Elizabeth 1807, Henry1808, Honour 1811, Eliza1814, Ann 1817, Ann 1818 and Martha 1822 , were all the children of Henry Noy and Mary Batten.
ExceptThe other three children we found, Jane Sampson, the twins, Edward Sampson and George were not on the list she gave me, and with the middle name of Sampson must be Henry Noy and Mary Sampson's children.
I was still surprised about most of the children being born to Henry and Mary Batten...like you, I would love to know were the information came from to group this family together....I always like to have proof in case someone queries my Tree. 
It leaves such a big gap in between the first child of Mary Sampson, Jane Sampson 1797, Elizabeth 1803, and the twins 1810 which is worrying. 
in case the families have been confused with each other.
The marriage PR's are a £1.. per copy, plus £5.00 handling charge =£7.00, I too, thought really cheap if you want a lot of them...I think I will hang on and see what other PR's I could order the same time 
It was kind of the lady to warn that most officials at that time were the Witnesses but as you say, there is always the chance they were family which would give me another piece of proof.
The Death certs might not be of any help, as the only evidence is of hopefully a family member, as the Informant of death and the address.
I will start tracing the children through from the marriages to see if they have been given a middle name of Batten.....fingers crossed.
Thanks for the advice, I am a doubtful Dora too when I can't find the evidence to prove the outcome to a diffficult problem
Ambers
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GLAMORGAN: Evans. Davies. Eddy. Bradnum.
PEMBROKE: Bradnum. Summers
CARMARTHENSHIRE: Davies. Jones
NORFOLK/SUFFOLK: Bradnum. Helsdon. Cork. Whiskins. Fairhead.Catchpole.
DEVON: Mallett. Acford, Kidston. Short. Lover. Dampier, Johns, Edwards,Telford. Sparrow
SOMERSET: Masey
CORNWALL: Eddy. Thomas. Maddern. Harvey. Noy.Reynolds,Batten, Curtis. Tregenza,Trebilcock
Warwickshire: Mountney
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ambers
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 628
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Kris, one important fact that I missed in my enthusiasm to read the information is  , the re-search has been taken from the files of the St Just District Re-search Group...she doesn't have any knowledge on either family herself 
I have found a birth at Madron 23/9/1855 for a Mary Batten Hocken.
According to the list Honour Noy b1811, married Simon Hocken at Sancreed 31/12/1831.
I have them in 1851 Madron: Simon 47 Farmer of 12 acres, Honor 39, Eliza 18, John 16, Henry14, William 11, Christopher 8 Nicholas 5 and Simon 1.
Can't find 1861 or 1871 to prove the child Mary is connected to this family yet 
1881 Madron, Honor a Widow and Christopher a Tin Miner 36
Ambers
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GLAMORGAN: Evans. Davies. Eddy. Bradnum.
PEMBROKE: Bradnum. Summers
CARMARTHENSHIRE: Davies. Jones
NORFOLK/SUFFOLK: Bradnum. Helsdon. Cork. Whiskins. Fairhead.Catchpole.
DEVON: Mallett. Acford, Kidston. Short. Lover. Dampier, Johns, Edwards,Telford. Sparrow
SOMERSET: Masey
CORNWALL: Eddy. Thomas. Maddern. Harvey. Noy.Reynolds,Batten, Curtis. Tregenza,Trebilcock
Warwickshire: Mountney
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krisesjoint
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WHOOOEEEEE,
I love Mary Batten HOCKEN Ambers. Now that is the sort of proof I like to see, Very considerate indeed to use the name Batten. So now there are 4.
Nothing in the marriage entry bar A Henry Noye was witness - with the marriage taking place in Sancreed and both parties otp at this time and since both Henry's were alive and no mention of Lanyon it didn't really help solve who she was................but this baptism, res Boswarthen, does it for me. So terribly considerate of Honor to use the name Batten for her lastborn. Alas the child does not appear to survive or I cant see her in 1861, but with parents names Honour and Simon I think there is little doubt, particularly as Simon and Honor HOCKING and family are at Boswarthen in 1861 RG9/1593 Folio 58 Page 13. 1871 still there RG10/2339 Folio 90 Page 16 - no Mary and Honor does say she was born in Gulval in both;)
Hope there are some more similar things out there.........Keep Hunting
Kris 
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ambers
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 628
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Kris,
Thank you for sharing my enthusiasm at the find of Mary Batten Hocking/Hocken, she died so young
I am very grateful for the census ref's, no wonder I couldn't find the family in the 1871, I tried all variations of Hocking but not Hacking, and Honour really did forget how old she was, and where she was born
I decided to send for the Marriage PR's for the two Henry Noy's, (price was £1.50 each and £5.00 handling charge according to the site), the death certs for Henry Noy and Mary Batten should arrive end of next week...fingers crossed for some kind of proof of which family I belong to.
I hadn't thought to check the marriages of the Noy children from the list I was given, thanks for the pointer, I will do that now.
I have plenty of hunting to do now, if only I could find a few more children with Batten as the middle name 
Ambers
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GLAMORGAN: Evans. Davies. Eddy. Bradnum.
PEMBROKE: Bradnum. Summers
CARMARTHENSHIRE: Davies. Jones
NORFOLK/SUFFOLK: Bradnum. Helsdon. Cork. Whiskins. Fairhead.Catchpole.
DEVON: Mallett. Acford, Kidston. Short. Lover. Dampier, Johns, Edwards,Telford. Sparrow
SOMERSET: Masey
CORNWALL: Eddy. Thomas. Maddern. Harvey. Noy.Reynolds,Batten, Curtis. Tregenza,Trebilcock
Warwickshire: Mountney
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krisesjoint
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Now George (the twin) is a boot and shoemaker. Uses the name Sampson in many of his childrens names.
Henry = Elizabeth Davey. Unfortunately cant really see anything there. He did call a daughter Martha, so maybe, although names such as Richard and Joseph don't really mean anything unfortunately, so calling a daughter Martha may mean nothing. Seems there were other Martha Noys about.
Alas, I see wifes maiden name was used in his childrens names but I can't see any mention of Sampson or Batten. He was a white/blacksmith. Looks like he and wife may be deceased by 1861 (the children are together with no other reli's in the household.) Pity. Don't appear to be other Noys who were Blacksmiths either at this time.
Look forward to an update.
If you have decided to order some printouts, think seriously about any others you may want before you place your order. It saves in the long run. I think we have pretty well concluded that Eliza was Mary Battens daughter haven't we - best I have another read through it.
You seem to be coming up with a higher price than what I am looking at.
http://www.cornwall.gov.uk/media/pdf/9/5/302PhotocopyFormApr2007_1.pdf
Have Fun.......Kris
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ambers
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 628
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Kris,
Henry Noy and Elizabeth Davey, White Blacksmith is on the list but like you I found nothing to link with 
I checked the Marriage PR's but couldn't find:
Mary Noy b1804 married John Bone of Morvah 13/10/1832 Madron
Elizabeth Noy b1807 married to James Trembath 31/12 1831 Madron.
Anne b1818 Madron married Benjamin Toman Thomas 10/11/1838 St Just in Penwith, no occupation for her father Henry.
Looking at the census most of them appear to be Farmers.
Ambers
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GLAMORGAN: Evans. Davies. Eddy. Bradnum.
PEMBROKE: Bradnum. Summers
CARMARTHENSHIRE: Davies. Jones
NORFOLK/SUFFOLK: Bradnum. Helsdon. Cork. Whiskins. Fairhead.Catchpole.
DEVON: Mallett. Acford, Kidston. Short. Lover. Dampier, Johns, Edwards,Telford. Sparrow
SOMERSET: Masey
CORNWALL: Eddy. Thomas. Maddern. Harvey. Noy.Reynolds,Batten, Curtis. Tregenza,Trebilcock
Warwickshire: Mountney
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ambers
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 628
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Wow Kris, I missed that connnection...looks good to me though
It is well passed my bedtime, but I have been itching to get time to do this all week.
I envy you being able to spot things so quickly but I am trying to keep up...honestly
Ambers
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GLAMORGAN: Evans. Davies. Eddy. Bradnum.
PEMBROKE: Bradnum. Summers
CARMARTHENSHIRE: Davies. Jones
NORFOLK/SUFFOLK: Bradnum. Helsdon. Cork. Whiskins. Fairhead.Catchpole.
DEVON: Mallett. Acford, Kidston. Short. Lover. Dampier, Johns, Edwards,Telford. Sparrow
SOMERSET: Masey
CORNWALL: Eddy. Thomas. Maddern. Harvey. Noy.Reynolds,Batten, Curtis. Tregenza,Trebilcock
Warwickshire: Mountney
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krisesjoint
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Posts: 8263
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I have been trying to follow up a little more and I do not think I have achieved anything further. I can't see a death for Edward Sampson Noy but the burial register seems to be missing for 2 years. looking at quite a few years we have 2-3 pages of burials for Madron finishing 1810 when double baptism took place. Then we have 2-3 pages a year from 1813 onwards and no sign of him. For some reason (register destroyed, or simply not transcribed) 1811 and 1812 seem to be missing so perhaps a burial was in those years. I don't see him in a census anyway - not that it is that important since he isn't yours I was just curious to get some age refs, wondering if perhaps they were not twins at all and that may help fill in this 1803-1810 gap. Now George "twin" named a son Edward Sampson so perhaps his brother had died.
Unfortunately I can't see anything in these Bones either. The marriage as you say is not in the OPC database so all I can see is index - no witness names. He is a miner. Funnily enough he and his wife are also missing in 1861 and the children are home alone. Now these children home alone should at least have an Aunt or Uncle in tow terribly helpful with her age in the census too isn't she - 25 in 1841, 46 in 1851
Kris
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« Last Edit: Saturday 08 March 08 12:54 GMT (UK) by krisesjoint »
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ambers
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 628
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Trust those registers to be missing
I can't really rule out the Sampson connection, although it does look that way with my Elizabeth Noy b1814.
I have been going through the census looking at all the marriages of the Noy children, can't help but notice how many of them named the first daughter Elizabeth, I know it'a a common name, but maybe granny was an Elizabeth. but which one 
Some of mine in the past have slipped a middle name in after baptism and used it on the census...nothing so far
I did find a Jane Sampson Richards b1831 but she was from Helston, daughter Emeline Sampson Richards. I was looking for Elizabeth Thomas b1851 daughter of Benjamin Toman Thomas and Ann Noy 1818..she was in the same household in 1871 as a servant, with a name like that I can't be sure it's her though.
Funny those children are by themselves  , wonder where mama and papa went that night.
Ambers
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GLAMORGAN: Evans. Davies. Eddy. Bradnum.
PEMBROKE: Bradnum. Summers
CARMARTHENSHIRE: Davies. Jones
NORFOLK/SUFFOLK: Bradnum. Helsdon. Cork. Whiskins. Fairhead.Catchpole.
DEVON: Mallett. Acford, Kidston. Short. Lover. Dampier, Johns, Edwards,Telford. Sparrow
SOMERSET: Masey
CORNWALL: Eddy. Thomas. Maddern. Harvey. Noy.Reynolds,Batten, Curtis. Tregenza,Trebilcock
Warwickshire: Mountney
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ambers
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 628
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Kriss,
I have found Martha Noy b1822 in the 1841.census, she is living with Benjamin Toman Thomas and his wife Ann Noy b1816/17 sisters
Ambers
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GLAMORGAN: Evans. Davies. Eddy. Bradnum.
PEMBROKE: Bradnum. Summers
CARMARTHENSHIRE: Davies. Jones
NORFOLK/SUFFOLK: Bradnum. Helsdon. Cork. Whiskins. Fairhead.Catchpole.
DEVON: Mallett. Acford, Kidston. Short. Lover. Dampier, Johns, Edwards,Telford. Sparrow
SOMERSET: Masey
CORNWALL: Eddy. Thomas. Maddern. Harvey. Noy.Reynolds,Batten, Curtis. Tregenza,Trebilcock
Warwickshire: Mountney
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krisesjoint
Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Online
Posts: 8263
Always Searching
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Very Good Ambers,
Keep up the good work. Since those later baptisms did list them as of Lanyon as well as Eliza's marriage we believed they were sisters, but the more proof the better for sure. Tying Honour and Elizabeth into the same family was a great find. Pity we couldn't tie Henry and Mary in with the other five. I wonder if the St Just group have some reasons unknown to us to have placed these two with Mary Batten. Here's hoping the more you track them something will surface. At least we are pretty confident Eliza had at least 4 sisters so that is great progress.
Kris
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