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Topic: One for Liverpool Annie Part 2 (Read 6274 times)
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fillupe
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Hi Annie - Thanks for your correction, I should have stated that! I was actually originally sent that photo by Tom Cunningham from Glasgow, Scotland and I apparently did a mind-meld with the facts. So then, it really did come from Scotland but 118 years and the "click", not a save!
Thanks
Philip
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Marscourt
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Hi Annie, My Great Grandfather was Charles DALTON. Please see: www.ozbadge.com for some other details. Cheers, MN Charles DALTON - Possibly rode in the Charge Charles Dalton was born in the parish of St. Luke's, Chelsea. He enlisted at Westminster in March 1850 at the age of 18 years into the 8th Hussars and was discharged from Calcutta, India, in September 1863 after 12 years service. The records give no indication of when, or how, he returned to England. He was entitled (according to the medal rolls) to the Crimean medal with clasps `Alma', `Inkerman' and `Sebastopol', and the Mutiny medal with clasp `Central India'. Although he was not shown as being entitled to the Balaclava clasp, he was allowed to become a member of the Balaclava Commemoration Society in 1879, and this would imply that he did indeed ride in the Charge. He is said to have emigrated to Australia aboard the Northern (sic) circa 1863-64 (no ship of this name can be found listed, but there was a ship called the Northam which made four voyages to Sydney in 1863 and the same number in 1864, but a Charles Dalton is not listed among the passengers). He is said to have married an Irish girl (Jessie FitzSimmons), born in Armagh, County Armagh, at Christ Church, St. Lawrence, Sidney, on 6 June 1865. Nine children were born into the family, the last seven being at Government House, where Charles Dalton was in charge of the Governor's escort. On his death he was buried in the Church of England Cemetery at Balgowlah, Manley. His wife died in 1919. A family tombstone exists in Manley Cemetery and has the following inscriptions on it - `Charles Dalton, late of the 8th King's Royal Irish Hussars and for 25 years in charge of the Governor's Escort, N S Wales. Born London 24th Nov 1832 -Died Balgowlah, 5th February 1891. Served in the Crimea and Turkey at Alma, Balaclava, Inkerman and Sebastopol, and in India at the Siege of Kotah, Recapture of Chundaree, Kotah Ki Seria, Capture of Gwalior, Powrie, Sindwah and Koonory. Also Jessie, beloved wife of the above - Died 17th December 1919, aged 81 years. Also Emily Emma Sarah Jordan, who passed away 31st Aug. 1965, aged 84.' http://www.thefreelibrary.com/The+Australian+graves+of+Crimean+War+Light+Brigade+veterans-a083477092 |
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Marscourt
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Hi Annie, Thank you, nice to be involved. Well, for starters the uniform he is wearing in both photos is not 8th Hussars, but NSW POLICE, as we can tell from the badge/helmet plate. I have the original helmet plate (one of two known to exist) and the State Library of NSW has the original wet plate "Carte de Viste's" of him. He based his uniform on the 8th Hussars and we think he was originally sent to Australia by HMG on board the P&O Mail steamer "Northam" as the "bodyguard" to Lord and Lady Young (soon to be Governor of NSW) in 1861 where he wore his 8H uniform. He is discreetly shown on the ships manifest as "manservant"; along with his future spouse, "Jessie" (my beautiful Great, Grandmother), which is where they met. I believe he officially left the 8H "payroll" or HMG employ in 1862/1863 when the NSW Police took over the "Governor's Escort/Guard" and he joined the NSW Police "payroll". Hence, the reason it looks like he was dismissed in Calcutta (but with no sign of where or how he went). 8H were never officially in Australia anyway...early Secret Service type stuff I guess, and they eventually just sent an "email" to Calcutta to say he'd resigned with "Time Served with Good Conduct" ;-) That Hussar style of uniform was used by Commissioned Police Officers right up until the 1940's. Guess they liked the Hussar "look"... with a touch of the old Calcutta "Pugaree", in the undress form. Cheers, Mike. Hi MN and welcome to RootsChat !!  How wonderful for you to have your GreatGrandfather in the Charge !! I had him in two places ... ( I really need to edit this thread !!  ) did you see this one ?.. I had your site included !! http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,286323.165.htmlI'd love to hear whatever else you could tell us .... Thank you for dropping by !! Annie |
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Marscourt
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Hi Annie,
I think the original post was by someone else who wrote an article on the surviving "Chargers" who ended up in Australia. I have sent him (I hope) some more info on Dalton saga also, to help maybe clear up a few things that we have known in our family for a LONG time; as you can imagine. Not that any history is written in stone!!
Even the Australian War Memorial has a photo of Dalton incorrectly shown as in 8H uniform. Oh well. ;-(
Cheers,
Mike.
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Marscourt
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P.S:
We hear he ended up cutting his lawn with his sword.
His medals unfortunately are no where to be found...but I am looking.
Cheers,
Mike.
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liverpool annie
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Is this yours too Mike ??
The Manly Daily, 7th September 1965 published this reminiscence by ‘JM’
Senior Sergeant Charles Dalton, who married Jessie Fitzsimons at Christ Church St Laurence, Sydney, was a survivor of that “Gallant Six Hundred” at the Battle of Balaclava, of whom Tennyson wrote in his famous poem.
Charles and Jessie had nine children, all of whom were born at Government House, Sydney, with the exception of Ernestina, who was christened at Goulburn. They were - James Burrows, Ernestina, Charles Albin, Jessie Maria, Antoinette Mary, George Conrade, Adelaide, Roberta Alexandra and Emily Emma Sarah.
Charles Dalton, who died in 1891, and whose head-stone is well preserved at Manly, was the Senior Sergeant in charge of the Governor’s Escort, and belonged to the 8th King’s Royal Irish Hussars. He served in the Crimea and Turkey, at Alma, Balaclava, Inkerman and Sebastopol and in India at the siege of Kotah, recapture of Chundaree, Kotah Ki Seari, capture of Gwalior, Powrie, Sindwah and Koonayr.
Dalton was reputed to be the finest shot and horseman of his day, and helped on more than one occasion to try to capture some bushrangers on the Goulburn plains.
He had come out from England with Lord and Lady Young, and remained in charge of the Governor’s escort, successively for 25 years, until he died. His widow, Jessie, and the children then went to live at their cottage called Gwalior,after one of the old battles in India. The cottage was situated at the corner of Condamine Street and Sydney Road, This valuable corner property was sold in 1919 by the family after Jessie Dalton followed her husband to the burial place reserved for her, beside him, at Manly, and where Emily Emma Sarah is now ‘at rest’ (Manly Cemetery Plot B129, Charles Dalton, buried 1891, son of Sarah; plot B128, his wife Jessie Dalton, buried 17 December 1919; plot B130, their daughter Emily Emma Sarah Jordan, buried 1 September 1965.)
Proof is available of other properties owned by the family at Manly until after WWI, as well as the Lots 1 to 5 on the Condamine Street Sydney Road corner already mentioned. They were Lots 6, 7, 8, 9 at West and New Streets, Balgowlah; also Lot 4, situated at the corner of Redan and Almora Streets, Mosman.
At one time this old soldier owned the whole of Cremorne Point, besides Centennial Park, which he later presented to his friend Sir Henry Parkes, who in turn gave this park in perpetuity to the people. Dalton wanted to have a drive built right around the foreshores of Sydney harbour in those early days, but three or four families with waterfront properties exerted their influence to stop it.
After the attempted shooting of the 1st Duke of Edinburgh at Clontarf by a Sinn Feiner, Charles Dalton slept in the same room as the two Princes who were then visiting Government House, Sydney, to guard them from harm. The second Dalton child was baptised Ernestina by permission of the Duke of Edinburgh in January 1868, who stood as the godfather
http://www.manly.nsw.gov.au/IgnitionSuite/uploads/docs/D%20Manly%20Biographical.pdf
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Cooper : Muels : Howarth : Every : Price : King
Be who you are and say what you feel - because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind ! Dr. Seuss
Erect no gravestone .... let the Rose every year bloom for his sake ! Rilke Sonnets to Orpheus, I:5
"Our fathers did not talk about psychology - they talked about a knowledge of Human Nature. But they had it, and we have not. They knew by instinct all that we have ignored by the help of information." Chesterton
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Marscourt
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Well, that's my dear old (deceased in the late 1960's) Aunty Joy Muir (nee Neville); my father's eldest sister.
You notice, she never uses the word "POLICE" in the article. A sign of those times I'm afraid. He was a Senior SGT of Police and only a Private in the 8H.
My Grandfather, a Thomas Walker NEVILLE, was also a NSW Police officer, (married Antoinette DALTON) and eventually became a Dentist in Mosman, Sydney. My father never knew that even his own father had served as a NSW Police officer, until I told him so, after doing some research. He was horrified...or should I say dumbfounded.
Like I said, the word "Police" was not held in the highest regard in those days...or maybe even today in some circles.
Cheers,
Mike.
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Marscourt
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Thank you Annie!!
You are doing great things for future generations.
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Marscourt
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Yep, that's him seated bottom right....with the trumpet...of course! VERY sad about Clive. My Uncle, Colonel Clive Neville, WW2, father of my famous cousin (the) Richard Neville of Oz Magazine fame of the 1960's in the UK (movie out soon), I believe was named after him. Thanks Annie, You probably have this already Mike ... but just in case !! ..... Another interesting appointment in 1887 was that of Charles Albin Dalton, son of Senior Sergeant Dalton of the police ( mentioned above ) .... C. A. Dalton was born at the Government House stables and his soldiering commenced at the age of 14 when he joined the artillery as a trumpeter; when he was 16 he transferred to the newly formed Sydney Light Horse and rode in the escort on March 3 1885. In 1887 he enlisted as a permanent soldier and was appointed to the permanent staff of the cavalry as trumpet-major and orderly room clerk (General Order No. 128). He was a man of strong character and a keen soldier. After about 20 years with the regiment he was transferred to the Mounted Rifles as regimental sergeant-major and later helped to train light horsemen in Victoria and Queensland also. He was the only original member to witness the regiment's Diamond Jubilee parade in 1945 http://authenticrepro.com/lancers.htmlName - Clive Malcolm Dalton, Sergeant, 4th Australian Light Horse died 12 Aug 1915 age 21. Parents - Son of Charles Albin Dalton and Amy Dalton of Victoria Barracks Sydney NSW. Burial - Alexandria Egypt. |
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Marscourt
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Mrs Chas. A Dalton (as did her mother Jessie) loved playing the piano and writing music and she would have thought it wonderful the their old home (the NSW Governor's Escort Barracks in Maquarie St, Sydney) is now part of the NSW Conversatorium of Music. You probably have this already Mike ... but just in case !! ..... Another interesting appointment in 1887 was that of Charles Albin Dalton, son of Senior Sergeant Dalton of the police ( mentioned above ) .... C. A. Dalton was born at the Government House stables and his soldiering commenced at the age of 14 when he joined the artillery as a trumpeter; when he was 16 he transferred to the newly formed Sydney Light Horse and rode in the escort on March 3 1885. In 1887 he enlisted as a permanent soldier and was appointed to the permanent staff of the cavalry as trumpet-major and orderly room clerk (General Order No. 128). He was a man of strong character and a keen soldier. After about 20 years with the regiment he was transferred to the Mounted Rifles as regimental sergeant-major and later helped to train light horsemen in Victoria and Queensland also. He was the only original member to witness the regiment's Diamond Jubilee parade in 1945 http://authenticrepro.com/lancers.htmlName - Clive Malcolm Dalton, Sergeant, 4th Australian Light Horse died 12 Aug 1915 age 21. Parents - Son of Charles Albin Dalton and Amy Dalton of Victoria Barracks Sydney NSW. Burial - Alexandria Egypt. |
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Marscourt
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Yep, that's him seated bottom right....with the trumpet...of course! VERY sad about Clive. My Uncle, Colonel Clive Neville, WW2, father of my famous cousin (the) Richard Neville of Oz Magaine fame (movie out soon), I believe was named after him. Thanks Annie, This is old NSW Government House Barracks (where they lived and were born) with the new Conservatorium Of Music next to it today. You probably have this already Mike ... but just in case !! ..... Another interesting appointment in 1887 was that of Charles Albin Dalton, son of Senior Sergeant Dalton of the police ( mentioned above ) .... C. A. Dalton was born at the Government House stables and his soldiering commenced at the age of 14 when he joined the artillery as a trumpeter; when he was 16 he transferred to the newly formed Sydney Light Horse and rode in the escort on March 3 1885. In 1887 he enlisted as a permanent soldier and was appointed to the permanent staff of the cavalry as trumpet-major and orderly room clerk (General Order No. 128). He was a man of strong character and a keen soldier. After about 20 years with the regiment he was transferred to the Mounted Rifles as regimental sergeant-major and later helped to train light horsemen in Victoria and Queensland also. He was the only original member to witness the regiment's Diamond Jubilee parade in 1945 http://authenticrepro.com/lancers.htmlName - Clive Malcolm Dalton, Sergeant, 4th Australian Light Horse died 12 Aug 1915 age 21. Parents - Son of Charles Albin Dalton and Amy Dalton of Victoria Barracks Sydney NSW. Burial - Alexandria Egypt. |
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NSWP_Dalton_neg_1_OK_Med.JPG
... some of the guys who went to America went and fought again .... makes for very fascinating reading !! and a little envy on my part !!