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Author Topic: Is it possible to find the father of an illegitimate child?  (Read 650 times)
julieann1
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Is it possible to find the father of an illegitimate child?
« on: Wednesday 12 March 08 08:41 GMT (UK) »

Frances Bell was born 23 May 1890 at Tundergarth.  She was the illegitimate daughter of Elizabeth Bell.  Elizabeth a few years later married Gideon Palmer and moved to Ayr, then England. Frances remained with her mother and was brought up as Gideon's daughter. 
Is there any way of finding out who Frances' father was? it does not say on the birth cert.
Julie
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BELL;TWEEDIE;PITTILLO/PATTILLO;WATSON;JOHNSTONE;PALMER;MOFFAT:DOBIE;BEATTIE:-dms
HYSLOP;MANSON;CURRIE;JAMIESON;BEATTIE:-Ayr
HOOKER;DYSON;SEABROOKE;DYER;DREWELL;STOCKWELL;CRIPPS;-London
BENDALL-Bristol
WOODEN/WOODIN;JARRETT-Surrey
MURCH;HARRIS;POPE:-Devon QUARM-Devon,London,Anywhere
RUMBLE;HIBBERD;-Wilts
MARTIN - Dorset,Somerset
Falkyrn
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Re: Is it possible to find the father of an illegitimate child?
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 12 March 08 10:53 GMT (UK) »

The short answer is I'm afraid, NO  .......

Sometimes there are clues in the names or family stories ... one relative of mine had the fathers surname as a middle name  but it is generally impossible to get definitive proof .... although if you knew the family concerned DNA testing may have some future benefits.

The only other path open is to ascertain if there were any court actions at the period involving claims of parentage etc.
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Willow 4873
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Re: Is it possible to find the father of an illegitimate child?
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 12 March 08 11:03 GMT (UK) »

Hiya Julie

As Falkyrn said the answer is usually no unless you are lucky

It might be worth looking at the parish register for her baptism as they might have noted the father although she was baptised under her mothers name.

If Frances knew who her father was she might have named him on her marriage certificate but sometimes they made up a fathers name as my grandmother did

Willow x
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Re: Is it possible to find the father of an illegitimate child?
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 12 March 08 11:07 GMT (UK) »

i'm going to disagree here
its not always possible but there are ways and means!

firstly check the PR's sometimes the vicar would write the fathers name in the register

check the local areas bastardry records (possibly indexed on A2A) - the people in charge didn't want to have to give relief to a child if the father was around in fact they didnt give relief out lightly at all.

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Re: Is it possible to find the father of an illegitimate child?
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 12 March 08 12:08 GMT (UK) »

Hi,

You might be interested in this link on the Scottish general board: http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,288594.0.html we have been discussing the same thing.

It's one of those things that there is no conclusive answer to. Sometimes the OPR’s or the Kirk sessions tell you who the father was but by 1890 they often don’t. I always look at the records that do exist just in case.

So personally I would say it’s worth a try but if you’re not able to visit the National Archives yourself it can be difficult or expensive to check them all.

Emma
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grendlsmother
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Re: Is it possible to find the father of an illegitimate child?
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 12 March 08 18:04 GMT (UK) »

If you have sight of the birth certificate, check if there is an RCE - this will often give the name of the father, especially if the mother took him to court for maintenance.   I have a couple of these.
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Re: Is it possible to find the father of an illegitimate child?
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 12 March 08 18:28 GMT (UK) »

Sometimes, in a country district, the neighbours have a fair idea of everything that went on in the area. Where I lived there are 3 or 4 people, aged 70-90, who can usually supply the name of a missing father.
Another idea is to ask different branches of the family. Last year a woman came to me looking for information about her illegitimate mother's father. Her mother was raised by her grandmother and never told anything but a first cousin recently told her who the father had been (he was surprised that no one had ever mentioned it before but he had the details from his mother).
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Re: Is it possible to find the father of an illegitimate child?
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 12 March 08 20:45 GMT (UK) »

there are other ways but nothing can be proved concretely (is that a word?)

how about local press birth announcements?
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Spinal Muscular Atrophy (SMA) is a neuromuscular condition causing weakness of the muscles.
SMA is the biggest genetic killer of children under the age of 2 years
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There is no current treatment
JTSMA.ORG.UK  FSMA.ORG  PROJECTCURESMA.ORG

Tomorrow is too late

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Re: Is it possible to find the father of an illegitimate child?
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 12 March 08 22:30 GMT (UK) »

Most people didn't put birth announcements in the newspaper in those days and would be highly unlikely to find one for an illegitimate child.
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Re: Is it possible to find the father of an illegitimate child?
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 13 March 08 08:22 GMT (UK) »

i disagree with you there aghadowey
however i would think the birth announcement would say a son / daughter born to .... ..... and wouldn't most probably mention the pugative father
you would also need to know the approx date of birth and the local newspapers name of that time and be prepared to search a couple of weeks either side.

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Spinal Muscular Atrophy (SMA) is a neuromuscular condition causing weakness of the muscles.
SMA is the biggest genetic killer of children under the age of 2 years
1 in 40 of you carry the gene that passes this conditon on
There is no current treatment
JTSMA.ORG.UK  FSMA.ORG  PROJECTCURESMA.ORG

Tomorrow is too late

Holman - Cornwall, Wojciechowskyj - Kiev Ukraine, Bentley - Bradford/Leicester, Taylor - Kent/Sussex, Punnett - Sussex, Richards - Leicester, Vinton - Cornwall, Beer - Devon
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Re: Is it possible to find the father of an illegitimate child?
« Reply #10 on: Thursday 13 March 08 08:34 GMT (UK) »

Toni- I have been through hundreds of years of newspapers and never remember seeing a birth announcement for an illegitimate child put in the newspaper - except perhaps a member of a royal family or very noble family.
One of the most likely places to find an illegitimate father's child is in baptismal records (depending on whether or not the clergyman put down the information).   
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julieann1
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Re: Is it possible to find the father of an illegitimate child?
« Reply #11 on: Thursday 13 March 08 08:42 GMT (UK) »

Thank you all for your suggestions. She is not a direct ancestor, so I think I'll have to let this one go.  It is just that it was a mystery, I had never heard of her being illegitimate, and my grandma spent a lot of time with these aunts and uncles, until I got the 1891 census and then her birth cert.  It's possible that Frances herself thought that Gideon was her father, and there is a possibility that he was.  I am really interested in this because it would be a light on Gideon's character (my g-grandfather).  I have heard stories about him being a difficult character, but on the other side one of his daughters once told me that he was 'a good man'.  Did he bring up someone elses child as his own? He was illegitimate himself, and brought up by his grandparents (which seems to have been the usual pattern), which may have given him the insight to do something different.  Or he could have been Frances' father, but not married her mother as he was working and living away in Ayr.
Unfortunately, all the remaining members of the family where in ignorance her illegitimacy.
Julie
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BELL;TWEEDIE;PITTILLO/PATTILLO;WATSON;JOHNSTONE;PALMER;MOFFAT:DOBIE;BEATTIE:-dms
HYSLOP;MANSON;CURRIE;JAMIESON;BEATTIE:-Ayr
HOOKER;DYSON;SEABROOKE;DYER;DREWELL;STOCKWELL;CRIPPS;-London
BENDALL-Bristol
WOODEN/WOODIN;JARRETT-Surrey
MURCH;HARRIS;POPE:-Devon QUARM-Devon,London,Anywhere
RUMBLE;HIBBERD;-Wilts
MARTIN - Dorset,Somerset
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Re: Is it possible to find the father of an illegitimate child?
« Reply #12 on: Thursday 13 March 08 09:25 GMT (UK) »

Toni- I have been through hundreds of years of newspapers and never remember seeing a birth announcement for an illegitimate child put in the newspaper - except perhaps a member of a royal family or very noble family.
One of the most likely places to find an illegitimate father's child is in baptismal records (depending on whether or not the clergyman put down the information).   

Yes i didnt say it would be in the newspaper what i said was there might be a birth announcement for the child in the newspaper,
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Spinal Muscular Atrophy (SMA) is a neuromuscular condition causing weakness of the muscles.
SMA is the biggest genetic killer of children under the age of 2 years
1 in 40 of you carry the gene that passes this conditon on
There is no current treatment
JTSMA.ORG.UK  FSMA.ORG  PROJECTCURESMA.ORG

Tomorrow is too late

Holman - Cornwall, Wojciechowskyj - Kiev Ukraine, Bentley - Bradford/Leicester, Taylor - Kent/Sussex, Punnett - Sussex, Richards - Leicester, Vinton - Cornwall, Beer - Devon
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Re: Is it possible to find the father of an illegitimate child?
« Reply #13 on: Thursday 13 March 08 09:36 GMT (UK) »

Toni- not trying to start an arguement but I think you misunderstood what I said-
I have been through hundreds of years of newspapers and never remember seeing a birth announcement for an illegitimate child put in the newspaper.
The next bit of information was concerning where a father's name might be written down.
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Re: Is it possible to find the father of an illegitimate child?
« Reply #14 on: Thursday 13 March 08 09:44 GMT (UK) »

i think we have crossed wires i originally said places where the fathers name might be written down and then i said there are others ways but nothing can be proven concretely using the other ways (i did not list them)  and then i said about press announcements mentioning the birth, i wodner if the paretns married after the birth the child muight be their with both parents of if it be in another parish it might be assumed the parents to be married but yes i very much doubt it would say born .... the son/daughter of ..... & .......



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Spinal Muscular Atrophy (SMA) is a neuromuscular condition causing weakness of the muscles.
SMA is the biggest genetic killer of children under the age of 2 years
1 in 40 of you carry the gene that passes this conditon on
There is no current treatment
JTSMA.ORG.UK  FSMA.ORG  PROJECTCURESMA.ORG

Tomorrow is too late

Holman - Cornwall, Wojciechowskyj - Kiev Ukraine, Bentley - Bradford/Leicester, Taylor - Kent/Sussex, Punnett - Sussex, Richards - Leicester, Vinton - Cornwall, Beer - Devon
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