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Author Topic: Boswell Help Please!!  (Read 706 times)
AshkeJ
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My father's stepfather's family - the Taplins!
Boswell Help Please!!
« on: Wednesday 12 March 08 13:46 GMT (UK) »
Hi There,

I am looking into the family of a friend of my mother's who lives in France and is not very computer literate!

Her family name is Boswell, of the Gypsy/Romany Boswells. Her father was Algar Boswell, born 1915 in Ilkeston. She had always assumed a link back to Trafalgar Boswell, son of Sylvester Boswell. I did a bit of research on the Boswells and have sketched out a tree of the descendants of Shadrach Boswell.

This morning Algar's birth certificate arrived showing his parents were Edward MacKenzie Boswell and Emily Edith Moore formerly Yeomans, which is great. However, I can't seem to find much more on Edward MacKenzie!

I found a marriage for him in 1906 in the Basford District, but neither of the women on the page listed are Emily Edith!

Can anybody help with placing Edward MacKenzie Boswell into the grand scheme of the many branches of the Boswell family, please???

Many thanks!!

Dominic
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Re: Boswell Help Please!!
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 12 March 08 13:56 GMT (UK) »
There are the following birth reg's
Edward MacKenzie Boswell
Jun qtr 1873
Derby
7b 472

and

Emily Edith yeomans
Mar qtr 1885
Derby
7b 620

Suz
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
AshkeJ
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Re: Boswell Help Please!!
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 12 March 08 14:10 GMT (UK) »
Hi Suz,

I am such an idiot. Thanks for those!! I'll have a look to see if they appear in any of the census returns!

I think I may have them in 1881 at 77 Napier St, Burton Upon Trent, Stafford, England 

Josaiah BOSWELL   Lodger (Head)   M   M  35   Derby, Derby, England   Cutler & Grinder     
Eldry BOSWELL          Wife                M   F   30   Longton, Stafford, England   Dressmaker     
Edward BOSWELL      Son                      M   8    Derby, Derby, England   Scholar     
Deonah BOSWELL     Daur                      F   3    Derby, Derby, England   Scholar 

I think that it might be the correct family as Algar had a sister called Diona and a brother called Isaiah.

Can't seem to find anything else on the family though, although I do have a birth reg entry in the March Qtr of 1846 in the Chesterfield District in Derbyshire for Josiah Boswell.

Dominic
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Re: Boswell Help Please!!
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 12 March 08 14:48 GMT (UK) »
I thought that may be the family (lodging with the Sheriff family)-especially with the Dionah as

There are these birth reg's
all mother's maiden name Yeomans
Mar qtr 1921
Derby
Isiah Boswell
7b 1175

Diona Boswell
Jun qtr 1924
Derby
7b 1037

William M Boswell
Mar qtr 1926
Derby
7b 954

maybe Edward and Edith Emily didn't marry until later - if Edward attended the reg he could have his name on birth certs

I have found 2 more Alga Boswells-one died age 1 yr -will give details in a mo - there may be some kind of connection -maye a family name?

Did a little digging on Emily Edith
she and another sibling were b Derby and then they moved to Sheffield with family
There is a marriage FreeBMD
Emily Edith yeomans
Jun qtr 1907 Sheffield
9c 868
there are 3 females and 2 males on page-neither of the males are Moores
but
Marriage
Jun qtr 1907
Sheffield Arthur Moore
9c 858

then there is a death
Arthur moore
age 20
Dec qr 1908
Sheffield
9c 630

of course this is all speculation -but could it be that Emily married and was widowed in a very short time -came back to Derby and that's how Algar came to be??

Suz
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
CitizenSmith
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Re: Boswell Help Please!!
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 12 March 08 15:04 GMT (UK) »
Hi Dominic

It looks like your friend's "Algar Boswell" belongs to a different branch of the Boswell tree than the one you thought (Shadrack Line) – ie, he isn't the Trafalgar Boswell of Essex and Blackpool who was the ancestor of Gordon Boswell of the museum at Spalding.

According to a reference in Bob Dawson's "The Genealogy of the Romany Boswells" (published by the RTFHS but now out of print), Edward Mackenzie is the son of Isaiah Boswell and Eldorai Sheriff - which seems to tally with your census find, if you accept Isaiah as a close match with Josaiah. This Boswell line was associated mainly with Derbyshire, Staffs, Warwickshire, Cheshire, Lancs etc.

Sharon
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Re: Boswell Help Please!!
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 12 March 08 15:15 GMT (UK) »
On the 1881 image (very difficult t read) I read (what is transcribed as Josaiah as "Asuiah" and what is transcribed as Eldry as "Elsin" or "Eldin"

So with Sharon's information it looks like the 1881 family is the correct one

Suz
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Re: Boswell Help Please!!
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 12 March 08 15:24 GMT (UK) »
 Cheesy Well you know what they say about assume ........

Thank you both very much, Suz and Sharon! It is nice to actually get things right, isn't it?

Sharon, would you know how far back the Trafalgar line and the Isaiah line bifurcates? And is there any further information on the Isaiah line?

Many thanks once again!

Dominic
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Re: Boswell Help Please!!
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 12 March 08 15:25 GMT (UK) »
1901
9 Bleach yard
Derby
Isiah boswell Head m 63 Gen lab mickleover Derbys
Elderi wife 50 Hobbis? Staffs
Phoebe Debwell?(Deverwell?) no relationshi given 5 Chilwell Notts
RG13 322 135 22

Suz
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AshkeJ
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Re: Boswell Help Please!!
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 12 March 08 15:47 GMT (UK) »
Quote from: suzard on Wednesday 12 March 08 14:48 GMT (UK)
maybe Edward and Edith Emily didn't marry until later - if Edward attended the reg he could have his name on birth certs

Actually, on Algar's birth certificate under Description of Informant it does give Edward M Boswell Father and E E Moore Mother. So, no, they weren't married at that point, and they obviously did go both together to register the birth.

Didn't twig on to that until just a moment ago!  Roll Eyes
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Re: Boswell Help Please!!
« Reply #9 on: Wednesday 12 March 08 15:49 GMT (UK) »
1871
Hill Cliff lane
Ashborne
Derbys
Caravan 1
nelson Boswell Head 38 Travelling Grinder Swinnington Staffs
Jane wife 40 Selby Yorks
Luesa? daughter U 23 Repton Staffs
Sarah daughter U 21 Barton Notts
Elias son 16 Mickleover Debys
Emilie daughter 14Heol Derbys
Horace son 13 Mickleover Derbys
Charley son 8 Tutbury Staffs
(all family dittoed as being travelling Grinders)

Caravan 2
Sampson boswell Head m 44 travelling grinder Solsbury oxfordshire
Caroline wife 30 Mickleover Derbys
Vasta daughter 10 Mira leicestershire
Walter son 4 Takenal  Derbys ( poss should be Ticknal)
Mary aunt W 65 Dunningham Lincs
Isaiah nephew mar 36 Micklover Derbys

RG10 3596 77 18

(I know this isaiah's age differs -but it seems his age differs census to census - 35 in 1881 and 63 in 1901 -there is a possible death for him which puts him b. 1839)

Suz
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Re: Boswell Help Please!!
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday 12 March 08 16:10 GMT (UK) »
1861
Beggarlee
greasley parish
Notts
(just down the road from where I am-still occasionally have travellers there today)
address given as "Gypsies"
Rhoda Boswell head W 50 Household manager Norfolk
Samson son U 30 Cutler Lincs
Lucretia daughter U 27 Staffs
Dillinda daughter U 24 Warwicks
Susanna Granddaughter 6 Derbys
Mary Visitor U 55 Lincs
Isaiah neice? (male) U 26 Brazier and Cutler Mickleover Derbys
Emma widow 24 Belper Derbys
Eliza neice 23 Repton Derby
Samintury? neice 4 Newall Derby
RG9 2433 7 8

wondering if mary b. Lincs was maybe Isaiah's mother

Suz
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Re: Boswell Help Please!!
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday 12 March 08 16:31 GMT (UK) »
Aha!

On the IGI earlier I found the baptism for Sampson Boswell in Warwickshire, son of Nathaniel Boswell and Rodey. Could Rhoda be the same Rodey?

Hmmm whilst the mother of your nephew isn't your aunt, I wonder if it's the same Mary in both the 1861 and the 1871 cesus returns?
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Re: Boswell Help Please!!
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday 12 March 08 16:56 GMT (UK) »
I wondered if it was the same mary -looks a possibility - maybe the nephew relationship referred to Isiah being Sampsons mother (who wasn't with them on that census)'s nephew Sounds complicated hope you know what I mean

Found an 1841 census entry -very vague -but may be some connection
1841
Blagrove Lane
Littleover
mickloeover
Derbys
Moses Boswell 55 Gypsy
James 50
Female 40
Female 30
Female 25
Female 20 male 6
Female 4
Female 3
all written as Not known Boswell
HO107 189 3 3

Don't suppose it will help much -but as i found it thought I'd post!

Suz
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Re: Boswell Help Please!!
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday 12 March 08 17:37 GMT (UK) »
Hi

Again in Bob's book: he gives the father and mother of Isaiah Boswell as Moses Boswell (? died Dec qtr 1855) and Mary aka Trinity or Pehanet (? died March qtr 1858, Rotherham, as 'Pysannet'). So Suz's last ref of Moses is very pertinent.

There's also another Yeomans link here: according to Bob, Moses had a first wife named Esther and by her a son called Henry (bp 1826, Sutton on the Hill, Derbyshire). Henry's wife/partner was a Mary Ann Yeomans.

The narrative on this branch of the Boswells (the Black Jack Line) goes over many pages. Dates aren't always included because some of the content comes from sources like the Journal of the Gypsy Lore Society, where articles were often based on oral history.

Bob doesn't attempt to link the different Boswell lines into one huge tree so there's no indication if or how the Shadrack Line and the Black Jack Line connect further back.

Sharon
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Re: Boswell Help Please!!
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday 12 March 08 18:11 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for the 1841 census info, Suz!

Sharon, that's wonderful, thank you! I don't know if this is technically illegal, but I wonder would it be possible to obtain a photocopy of the relevant pages of Bob Dawson's book concerning the Black Jack Line, please? Or is there an online resource that gives the same information as contained in The Genealogy of the Romany Boswells?

If not, could you give me the ISBN or ISSN number for the book, please? That way I can see if the library system can track it down! So much easier for them if there is an ISBN number!!

I am now a little confused regarding Sampson and Isaiah and the exact relationship between them. If you look at the dates then it would make more sense is Sampson's father and Moses were brothers, rather than Moses and Sampson himself.

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