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Topic: Passenger list 1939 (Read 607 times)
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shellyesq
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1088
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If John predeceased her and there were no children, there may have been no one to file for Social Security benefits. That might be why you're not finding her.
If you have a Family History Center near you, there is a microfilmed index to deaths in New York City up to 1965 that you could order. She may not have died in New York City, but it sounds like she had been there for a while, so it's not a total long shot. There are also some people on raogk.org who do public records look-ups in New York county. I'm not sure how much they would be able to find in that time frame, as New York State only lets you order death certificates if they are 50 or more years old, unless you can prove you're a direct descendant.
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kimkitty
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 76
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi again
John Grant did have children, but not with Elizabeth (he was divorced). I understand there was definitely a boy called John Grant, known as Johnny. We think there may have been a girl, but not too sure. The problem with old photos, that some of them were never written on the back identifying who was who.
I have always thought she probably died in New York. The rest of the living relatives never heard anything of her moving elswhere.
Unfortunately, my local Family History Center is closed for refurbishment until an undisclosed time. Always the way when you have something definite to investigate! Anyway, as soon as it re-opens, I shall pop in and see what I can find. Meanwhile, I shall concentrate on tracking down the photo from 1939.
Many thanks again for the added information and advice. I cannot believe how kind people are on this site. Just wish I had found it months ago!
Best wishes
Kim
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Atherton and Dawson of Wigan Lancs and Llandrindod Wells, Wales.
Wilkins of Monmouthshire, Wales.
Mewton, Prideaux and Mitchell of Cornwall.
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YvonneR
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 676
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Hi Kim
I don't have anything definite regarding John Grant but have tried to find him.
Firstly I checked for his naturalization record using the information that Carolyn provided at the "Italian Genealogical Group" (although I always use the Stephen Morse site to access the IGG http://stevemorse.org/ )
I didn't find the record in Kings County or Brooklyn but it was in the "Southern District (Manhattan, Bronx, Westchester) 1906-1959"
Certificate Number, 1946990
Surname, Grant
First Name, John
Age, 26
Petition Volume, 194
Petition Number, 48323
Date of Certificate, 05/19/1924
Approx year of Birth, 1898
So onto looking for a John Grant in the 1920 census....found just one that was not born in US and this John's occupation is Chauffeur for private family.
370 Columbus Avenue, Manhattan Assembly District 7, New York
Head, Margaret Mullane, age 45, widow, immigration year 1890, naturalized, born Ireland, parents born Ireland
Son, James D, age 20, single, born New York
Son in law, John Grant, age 22, married, immigration year 1914, PA (Papers Applied for), born Ireland, parents born Ireland, occupation Chauffer Private
Daughter, Margaret Grant, age 19, married, born New York
Grand Daughter, Margaret M, 1 year and 7 months, born New York
In 1930 there are two John Grant's of the right age, the other John is single, born Scotland immigration year 1914, occupation Electrician, naturalized and living with parents in Park Place, Brooklyn. The Irish John and family are still at 370 Columbus Avenue along with another daughter Juletia ? age 5. John's occupation is still Chauffeur, Private family and he is naturalized. John's birth place is shown as Northern Ireland (I believe that I have found his passenger list entry in 1915 and that he was born in Crossmaglen, Co. Armagh)
Regarding the Scottish John Grant, I know that others here on this board are extremely experienced in naturalization requirements but I vaguely recall reading that children are naturalized through a parent but all that I could find is this and it certainly isn't conclusive....
"Before 1906, only the head-of-household was required to become naturalized with the remainder of the family automatically naturalized when he/she received the final papers. This means that wives and children are not listed separately nor were separate records required until the late 1920's when both spouses needed to register. Later the children required separate records."
http://www.nd.gov/hist/sal/gen/infnat.htm
Well as I have such a strong "feeling" about Irish John 
His WWI draft index card shows him living at 370 Columbus Avenue, wife Margaret. His occupation is Chauffeur and employer ? O'Brien, 303 W65th Street, NY.
Born 17th January 1898.
This is John's SSDI entry
Name, John Grant
Last Residence, Brooklyn, Kings, New York
Born, 17th January 1898
Died, February 1985
Obviously this cannot be proved from the online databases. The IGG have a printable form to request Naturalization records although I am not sure how you feel about this. There are again many on this board who could advise you about this as well as possibly how to go about maybe? finding an obit....
Really hope that this helps in some way...it would be lovely to hear that you eventually find more about Elizabeth's life in the US.
Very best wishes
Yvonne
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My family research Sheridan - Leitrim, Ireland, New York, USA, Birmingham, England Finnegan - Ireland, New York, USA Gilmartin - Leitrim, Ireland, New York, USA Cashal - Ireland, New York, USA Donnelly - Ireland Reilly - Ireland My husbands family research Robinson - Birmingham, England Turner - Birmingham, England Beresford - Birmingham, England Hall - Birmingham, England Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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kimkitty
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 76
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Dear Yvonne
It is so kind of you to keep looking for more information.
Your results on John Grant were amazing!!
From piecing bits and pieces of family information together, we have now decided that our John is definitely the Irish one you have listed! John was always known as a chauffeur. The dates just seem too accurate not to be him.
My mother did know he had at least two children, a boy and girl. However, the first born of this Grant family would of been well grown up by the time he met Elizabeth. So that would explain her.
Elizabeth used to write to my grandmother and talk about the trouble she was having with "the children". They were teenagers and quite diffcult at times. That makes me believe that maybe John's first wife had died and he was left to bring up the two younger ones himself. We do have photos of "the children" and these photos are much later ones than the ones of her and the "governess ones". I know at 17 my mother wanted to go to New York, but Elizabeth felt the responsibility of the restaurant, the problems she had had with John's two and my 17 year old mother would be too much responsibility, so she had to decline. My mother was very disappointed. She has always been told she is so much like her "Aunt Bessie". Strong in mind and will!!
My mother's memories of John are when she was five. When they came to the UK in 1938-39 he taught my mother to tap dance. She has never forgotton him. She tells me he was a big man, but so kind and gentle. Elizabeth was quite a go-getter and the favorite of my grandfather, her eldest brother. Sort of explains why at the age of 33 she left a small Spa town and sailed across the ocean for a new life, all on her own.
We have so little knowledge of Elizabeth's life in the USA. We know that times were not always easy, however, she loved the country and never had any intention of coming back to the UK. She used to send my grandmother beautiful dresses that you just could not get over here. Of course my grandmother never went to any special places to wear such clothes, so my mother used to use them for dressing up!!
I am convinced that Elizabeth would have been buried in the USA. None of our family would have had the kind of money required to bring her home. Hopefully she is with John, wherever he is. Perhaps one day we will find out and be able to add a photo of their resting place, with those of her siblings.
Again, thank you so very much! I started this search with a name. I now know a lot more about the person that was John Grant.
Take care and best wishes
Kim
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Atherton and Dawson of Wigan Lancs and Llandrindod Wells, Wales.
Wilkins of Monmouthshire, Wales.
Mewton, Prideaux and Mitchell of Cornwall.
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