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Topic: Penman Burials Airth Pre-1855 (Read 513 times)
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colliersbairn
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Posts: 27
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi there,
Do any of you have information on Penman burials in Airth parish? Once my Penmans moved to Bothkennar parish they were good about headstones and I have all that information. I even visited the kirkyard and took pictures. When my husband and I drove up to Airth we didn't realize that there was a new church and an old church and the new church didn't have anything. I'm mainly interest in the 1700's. William and Janet Izat married in Airth in 1774 and I believe his parents were Alexander Penman and Jean Strang.
Any help would be appreciated.
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apanderson
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Posts: 986
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According to the Mitchell's pre-1855 MI's for Airth Churchyard and Airth Castle Burial Ground, there were no stones found for Penmans in either place. That doesn't mean they won't be buried there, just that there were no stones.
Sorry!
Anne
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apanderson
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Posts: 986
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Indeed they may Isles.
Unfortunately (in my experience), there is very little information on these except to say, for example, wife/child of John Smith. Then of course, how to prove which particular John Smith this might have been. I haven't had a look at Airth's records for either the Churchyard or the Castle so I don't know how well they were kept.
The following is a link to (a downloadable pdf file) from Falkirk Archives and it shows what records they have for Churches. Doesn't look as though they have anything for Airth except copies of Calatria which contain MI's.
http://www.falkirk.gov.uk/services/community/cultural_services/museums/archives/finding_aids/PDFs/cemeteries.pdf
Anne
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Hannah29
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Posts: 47
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello Colliersbairn
There are 32 Penman burials noted in Central Scotland Family History Society's Burial Index for Airth, mentioned by Isles. 9 are in the 1800s, the remaining 23 are in the 1700s. With the exception of one who lived in Elphinston at the time of death and another who was living in Larbert, the others all were living in Airth parish. Some entries mention the name of a relative as well, e.g. Archibald Penman, son to John Penman. Date of burial 6 June 1765. It might be worth your while contacting the Society, or Central Library in Stirling, which has copies of all the CSFHS Burial Indexes. They have a family history specialist on the staff there too and microfilms of the OPRs which the index was transcribed from.
Best wishes
Hannah
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colliersbairn
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Posts: 27
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Many thanks to you all. I've been on vacation and getting back into the swing of things. I will definitely contact the Central Scotland Family History Society to see what I can find out as it is the pre-1800 information that I require. Given my Penmans were colliers, I was unsure if they would even have headstones in Airth.
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tommacgregor
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Posts: 1248
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello "colliersbairn",
It's nice to hear from you again. It looks as if you've missed all the fun that we were having a short time ago about the switching of spellings, etc.,, with the name STRANG and STRANGE. I reckon that it's done just to get me revved up. I'm only kidding of course  However, to return to the job in hand.
In recent postings I also made mention of the confusion that appears to be in place about Abram and Abraham STRANG. Let me repeat what I was saying then in an effort to try and sort it out once and for all. First ABRAHAM STRANG was christened on the 27th December, 1677 at Tulliallan in Perthshire to William STRANG and Bessie PEACOCK. It was he who married Helen COWAN - not ABRAM. ABRAM STRANG wasn't on the scene until he was christened on the 14th of June, 1728 - a cool 51 years later! His parents were John STRANG and Katharine Henderson who married on the 31st January, 1719, so ABRAM's birth seems to fit in quite well with the marriage date.
ABRAHAM STRANG , christened 27th December, 1677 at Tulliallan in Perthshire was the child of William STRANG and BESSIE PEACOCK. It was this man who married HELEN COWAN on the 7th of October, 1709 at Tulliallan, and they certainly did have a child named JANET STRANG. She was born/chr. on the 7th of December, 1710 at Tulliallan. That information should make you feel a lot happier.
Now for another "messy" bit. Gee! I just love walking around mine-fields - I don't think! The question is, was this Janet Strang the lady who married Alexander Penman on the 15th of October, 1748 when she was about 38 years of age? Frankly, I don't think so. So, who the devil did marry Alexander PENMAN? Lead on MacDuff, I hear you cry. That makes me smile a bit, because MacDuff was the Thane of Fife - instant elevation for me, a mere coal miner's son!
Alright, let's see what I can do, even though I know that I'm going to hit a few areas that appear to be "questionable". An Alexander PENMAN was christened, (notice I didn't say born), on the 4th of August, 1734 at New Battle, Midlothian to John PENMAN and Elizabeth (Bessie) Anderson. He married a Jean STRANGE or STRANG on the 15th of October, 1748 at Airth in Stirlingshire. Hang on a bit, though - that would mean that he was only about 14 years old when he got married. All I can think of is that he was christened well after his actual birth date!  Now, surprise, surprise, Jean STRANGE or STRANG was born about 1730 at Airth in Stirlingshire. That would mean that she was about 16 when she got married. What makes me thing that the young couple were actually born in the same birth year?
Now to the next "messy" bit. Alexander PENMAN and Jean STRANG had the following children:
Duncan Penman christened 22nd October, 1749 at Airth in Stirling.
William Penman christened 19th April, 1752 at Airth in Stirling.
Helen Penman christened 5th May, 1754 at Airth in Stirling.
Marion Penman christened 4th April, 1756 at Airth in Stirling.
Alexander Penman christened 12th September at Airth in Stirling.
I said it was messy, and I sure wasn't kidding! Let's ask another question, who was Jean Strange or Strang. Believe it or not, I'm led to understand that they were ABRAM STRANG and HELEN COWAN! I simply don't believe what the records are stating, and who can blame me? If Jean STRANG was christened in 1730, then the birth of her first child 19 years later seems to be quite acceptable. Now, if we change the names of Jean STRANG's parents to ABRAHAM STRANG and HELEN COWAN, we get a much different picture and, believe it or not, they had a daughter christened on the 7th December, 1710 at Tullian. Her name? JANET STRANG!
Now, I'm not ashamed to say that I'm a bit "old-fashioned" and that I tend to look very closely at "naming patterns', that old Scot's custom. So, what on earth happened with the naming of Alexander and Jean's children.? The eldest son named Duncan, the second oldest daughter named Marion. Sounds a bit "on the nose" to me. i could understand it if Alexander Penman's parent had been Duncan Penman and Marion Cowan, and just look at the COWAN surname popping up again!
Quite clearly the records that I have seen are completely unreliable. What this means, (and it's only a suggestion!), is that a small team of people should closely examine all of the information that I have shown above and check on the particulars of each person mentioned. Frankly, I just don't have the resources to carry out that work. I have pointed out that difference of 51 years between ABRAM and ABRAHAM STRANG and that, of course, makes an enormous difference to our investigation. I have also pointed out that ABRAM's parents were John STRANG and Katharine Henderson, yhet when we look at the naming patterns we simply don't see any mention of a John or a Katharine. However, we do see a Duncan and a Marion, which certainly needs to be checked out by examing such things as the marriage date of Duncan Penman and Marion Cowan, and who their children were.
I look forward to hearing from quite a lot of you out here.
Kind Regards,
Tom.
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colliersbairn
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Posts: 27
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Tom,
I've actually been down this road in the last month or so. Alexander Penman, I suspect, was the eldest son of Duncan Penman and Marion Cowan. The first child christened to the couple was Duncan Jr. who was christened in Larbert on the 6th July 1732. I could not find a marriage for Duncan and Marion but Marion would be about thirty when she had little Duncan. This means she had at least ten years of childbearing before Duncan. Furthermore, Duncan is named after his father and would be the third son. At the same time Alexander Penman was a young adult, there was another young Penman male named John. He also named his firstborn Duncan and I suspect he was another son of Duncan and Marion who was never christened. He went on to marry Agnes Maither or Mair. Also one of those young lads had two children to a lady named Decent!. They were twins Alexander and Marion born in 1748. The father was only listed as Penman.
I will reply to the Jean Strang query later as I'm going to be late for work!
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colliersbairn
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Posts: 27
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Very strange, I'm replying to myself. Okay on to Jean Strang. There is a Jean Strang christened in Tulliallan on the 16th April 1721 to Abram Strong and Helen Cowan (OPR for Tulliallan (397/ 0010 0125). I got this one from Scotland's People not the IGI. The name transcribed is Abram Strong, not Abraham. I didn't bother to pay to look up the actual scan of the page though.
So there you go. Alexander Penman, son of Duncan Penman and Marion Cowan born sometime around 1721 - 1728 in and around Airth and Jean Strang christened in April 1721 to Abram Strong and Helen Cowan. I wonder if she was his cousin!
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tommacgregor
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Posts: 1248
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hello "Colliersbair"
Yup! I like it! ;)This scenario makes far more sense than the load of garbled information on some records. The "original" Abraham STRANG, christened 27th December, 1677, parents William STRANG and Bessie PEACOCK, is what I call my anchor point, and I work from that point forward in time.
If you have the time, why not examine Helen COWAN and her family. Personally, I would start with Marion COWAN, the wife of Duncan PENMAN. I see that as quite an important part of the exercise.
Kind Regards,
Tom.
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