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Topic: "MISSING" Cornelius George Lawrence.....UPDATED and none the wiser (Read 1895 times)
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caroline hammill
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Posts: 1106
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Hi, im trying to find Cornelius George Lawrence b1848, Cheltenham.
I have found his Birth and his Marraige details.......but thats as far as my searching has got for him. I cannot find him on the 1851 census.
Thank you, CAZ
 SEE FURTHER DOWN THREAD FOR THE UPDATE 
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« Last Edit: Tuesday 18 January 05 19:14 GMT (UK) by caroline hammill »
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DEVON : Gillard,Horn,Powlesland,Cooper,Crocker,Mallett,Branch
GLOUCESTERSHIRE : Hanks,Pratt,Bowen,Hall,Compton,Lawrence,Morris,Williams, Izard,Dancey,Derrett
WORCESTERSHIRE : James, Wheatcroft
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Arranroots
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~ Grand Aunt Jenny ~
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Hi Caz
This is a case of names being changed and proved quite tricky! It sounds as though you have access to Ancestry, so should be able to follow these up:
Cornelius George LAWRENCE birth Sep 1847 Cheltenham 11 194
Marriage 1869 Cheltenham 6a 678 to Sarah Ann COMPTON
1871 RG10/2668 Cheltenham
LAWRENCE Cornelius George 23 born Cheltenham
Sarah Ann wife 23 born ditto
George Harry son 1 born ditto
1881 not found (yet!)
1891 RG12/2045
LAURANCE George 43 born Cheltenham
Sarah Ann 43
and Harry, Lottie, Louisa, Ernest, Lizzie, Edward
1901 RG13/2460 ED 2 F24 P3
LAWRENCE Harry born Cheltenham
Emma born Coleford
Ernest brother 20
Lizzie sister 17
& Harry's children
Possible death of Sarah Ann in 1899 (Cheltenham Sep 6a 292 aged 53) might help explain the siblings being with Harry.
Have done this in a bit of a ruch and apologise for incomplete references. Let me know if you have trouble finding them again!
Arranroots
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« Last Edit: Friday 14 January 05 22:24 GMT (UK) by copyright_editor2 »
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SOM: BIRD, BURT aka BROWN HEF: BAUGH, LATHAM, CARTER, PRITCHARD GLS: WEBB, WORKMAN, LATHAM, MALPUS WIL: WEBB, SALTER RAD: PRITCHARD, WILLIAMS GLA: RYAN, KEARNEY, JONES, HARRY MON: WEBB, MORGAN, WILLIAMS, JONES, BIRD SCOTLAND: HASTINGS, CAMERON, KELSO, BUCHANAN, BETHUNE/ BEATON IRELAND: RYAN (WATERFORD), KEARNEY, BOYLE (DUNDALK) |
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caroline hammill
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Hi, thanx again Arranroots, Most of that info i already had, apart from the 1901 census, that is the death for sarah and i think i have another marraige for Cornelius a few years after sarah died, cant remember her first name but the surname was Pearce.
I have trawled through the 40 place entries for Gloucestershire on the "rootsweb.com~cots", needless to say it took me a few days to go through the couple of thousand names. I did however, come acros a Cornelius George Lawrence, right age but with a family called DERRETT, mother was put down as widow on this census, and she was also born Charlton Kings, where Cornelius was from.
This was the only Cornelius George Lawrence on this entire census, i am however waiting for his Birth Certificate to turn up, Dispatch date was given as 12 Jan.
But even with the fathers name (when i get the cert) it dont explain why he's not on the 1851 census (with LAWRENCE as his surname).
Any ideas on how to solve this one. Im new to all of this so not too clever on knowing how to solve certain family mysteries.
Thanx, Caz
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DEVON : Gillard,Horn,Powlesland,Cooper,Crocker,Mallett,Branch
GLOUCESTERSHIRE : Hanks,Pratt,Bowen,Hall,Compton,Lawrence,Morris,Williams, Izard,Dancey,Derrett
WORCESTERSHIRE : James, Wheatcroft
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Arranroots
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~ Grand Aunt Jenny ~
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Here's Cornelius in 1881 (note spelling)
RG11/2572 ED22 F79 P12
2 Baker Street, Cheltenham
Cornelias G LAWRENCE 33 Stoker in gas works
Sarah Ann 33
George H 11
Sarah L 6
Louisa A 3
Edwin F 1
I wonder if Sarah L is the Lottie from 1891? I also wonder what happened to Edward (1891 census) by 1901?
Having trouble with this posting, so stopping to refuel with lunch!!
Arranroots
Have just seen your posting and sorry I was confused about what you were looking for. Have you tried changes of name and spellings, as that seems to be a common factor in all this?? Incidentally Charlton Kings is not quite the same as Cheltenham, even though they are now merged - searches on one won't necessarily produce the other.
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SOM: BIRD, BURT aka BROWN HEF: BAUGH, LATHAM, CARTER, PRITCHARD GLS: WEBB, WORKMAN, LATHAM, MALPUS WIL: WEBB, SALTER RAD: PRITCHARD, WILLIAMS GLA: RYAN, KEARNEY, JONES, HARRY MON: WEBB, MORGAN, WILLIAMS, JONES, BIRD SCOTLAND: HASTINGS, CAMERON, KELSO, BUCHANAN, BETHUNE/ BEATON IRELAND: RYAN (WATERFORD), KEARNEY, BOYLE (DUNDALK) |
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caroline hammill
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Hi Arranroots, Edward for the 1901 census was with a sister and her husband " Louisa Anna Lawrence + Joseph Millard.
I checked every name on the other website (rootsweb.com~cots), You dont have no choice but to, unfortunately, the only explanation i could come with was : Cornelius's dad died before the 1851 census was taken and for some reason the mother may have gone to her maiden name DERRETT, long shot i know but cant think of any other option.
Im from Cheltenham and so is most of my family, and they still live there,(im now in Bedworth, Warwickshire), so i understand what you say about Charlton Kings, on Freebmd it just says place of birth CHELTENHAM, but my nan + grandad's families lived and came from Charlton Kings (well most of them) and this is why on the 1851 census i wondered if i had the right Cornelius , just the surname is a bit confusing.
Hope all the above makes sense, i know what im trying to say, it's just putting it down in text form and making sense.
CAZ
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DEVON : Gillard,Horn,Powlesland,Cooper,Crocker,Mallett,Branch
GLOUCESTERSHIRE : Hanks,Pratt,Bowen,Hall,Compton,Lawrence,Morris,Williams, Izard,Dancey,Derrett
WORCESTERSHIRE : James, Wheatcroft
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caroline hammill
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Just had a look through all of my notes and i couldnt find them on the 1881 census either, in fact , checking census years for the one's i have found, there is'nt a 1881 census for none of the Lawrence families i have, my nan's maiden name was also Lawrence before she married a Lawrence, (not related before marraige either, i did ask)
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DEVON : Gillard,Horn,Powlesland,Cooper,Crocker,Mallett,Branch
GLOUCESTERSHIRE : Hanks,Pratt,Bowen,Hall,Compton,Lawrence,Morris,Williams, Izard,Dancey,Derrett
WORCESTERSHIRE : James, Wheatcroft
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caroline hammill
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1106
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Hi, im trying to find Cornelius George Lawrence b1848, Cheltenham. I have found his Birth and his Marraige details.......but thats as far as my searching has got for him. I cannot find him on the 1851 census. Thank you, CAZ I have trawled through the 40 place entries for Gloucestershire on the "rootsweb.com~cots", needless to say it took me a few days to go through the couple of thousand names. I did however, come acros a Cornelius George , right age but with a family called DERRETT, mother CHARLOTTE DERRETT was put down as widow on this census, and she was also born Charlton Kings, where Cornelius was from. Also on the same family was MATILDA 22 Laundress Charlton Kings, Ann 14 Laundress Uckington, Elizabeth 12 Uckington, Charlotte 9 Cheltenham. This was the only Cornelius George Lawrence on this entire census, i am however waiting for his Birth Certificate to turn up, Dispatch date was given as 12 Jan. But even with the fathers name (when i get the cert) it dont explain why he's not on the 1851 census (with LAWRENCE as his surname). BIRTH CERT TURNED UP TODAY !!!! NONE THE WISER The names on the birth cert tie in on the 1851 census, but not surname  Cornelius George LAWRENCE 4//8/1847........MOTHER.. MATLIDA LAWRENCE...... no father noted......BUT..name of informant.... CHARLOTTE DERRETT. Any ideas on how to solve this one. Im new to all of this so not too clever on knowing how to solve certain family mysteries. Thanx, Caz. |
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DEVON : Gillard,Horn,Powlesland,Cooper,Crocker,Mallett,Branch
GLOUCESTERSHIRE : Hanks,Pratt,Bowen,Hall,Compton,Lawrence,Morris,Williams, Izard,Dancey,Derrett
WORCESTERSHIRE : James, Wheatcroft
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Valda
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1861 census RG9 1801 folio 49
Alstone Cheltenham Gloucestershire
Matilda Derrett 32 Charlton, Gloucestershire, Head Unmarried Laundress
Ann Derrett 24 Charlton, Gloucestershire, Sister Unmarried Laundress
Charlotte Derrett 17 Alstone, Gloucestershire, Daughter Unmarried Laundress
Cornelius G Derrett 14 Cheltenham, Gloucestershire, Grandson Blacksmith
On the 1851 census Cornelius' relationship is given as son to Charlotte. The four females are given as her daughters. Charlotte was a widow.
On the 1861 census the grandson relationship maybe a confusion, as Charlotte senior was absent - a pike keeper in Elmstone Hardwicke! In 1871 Charlotte is back in Cheltenham with her unmarried daughter Charlotte and granddaughter aged 7 Clara Herbert born Cheltenham.
Regards
Valda
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caroline hammill
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Thank you both for your replies. However, since last January i have found that Charlotte Derrett was a Lawrence before she married, so......am i right in thinking that Charlotte said that Cornelius was her son....like you say, to save face...AND... Matilda (the real mother of Cornelius) was another child born out of wedlock to Charlotte and thats why she has the surname Lawrence on Cornelius Birth cert......
Does the above make any sense !!!! LoL
CAZ 
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DEVON : Gillard,Horn,Powlesland,Cooper,Crocker,Mallett,Branch
GLOUCESTERSHIRE : Hanks,Pratt,Bowen,Hall,Compton,Lawrence,Morris,Williams, Izard,Dancey,Derrett
WORCESTERSHIRE : James, Wheatcroft
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caroline hammill
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1106
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Hi Tiffy....like your dogs name by the way...LoL..
I have Cornelius George lawrence Birth Cert, on it it says that Matilda Lawrence is the Mother, no father was listed and Charlotte Derrett was the informant.
Charles Derrett and Charlotte Lawrence married 6-6-1832, now Matilda Lawrence (Charlottes Daughter) was born c1829....so obviously she was born with father unknown for what ever reason...
So as far as i know i have sorted that little problem........except who does Clara Herbert aged 7 on the 1871 census belong to, cant seem to find her on any other census returns....could she be Charlottes Daughter...Charlotte, she's down as Grandchild.
I've not found a single marraige for any of Charlotte c1809 Daughters
Dont you just love these family brick walls.
I've ordered Cornelius George Lawrence Marraige cert today.....hopefully that might shed some light on who his father might be...........who am i kidding.. 
CAZ
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DEVON : Gillard,Horn,Powlesland,Cooper,Crocker,Mallett,Branch
GLOUCESTERSHIRE : Hanks,Pratt,Bowen,Hall,Compton,Lawrence,Morris,Williams, Izard,Dancey,Derrett
WORCESTERSHIRE : James, Wheatcroft
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Tiffy
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Posts: 20
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Caz, have been GLAZED at the pc since my last message looking for you. Your Herbert girlie is shown as a servant on one of the censuses, but I'll have to go back through them again, I know that she was living with Charlotte Derrett (unmarried) and her sister Elizabeth (unmarried) from memory their ages were 39yrs and 43 yrs (ish) and still single. This Herbert is shown as their niece but will have further look at them again, to try and trace here.
According to the approx birth dates on the earliest census 1851 they go:-
Charlotte Senior about 1810
Matilda 1829
Ann 1837 (Big gap between her and Matilda)
Elizabeth 1839
Charlotte junior 1842
The elusive Cornelius 1848.
It is very possible that Matilda's real surname was Lawrence (illegit) but commonly called Derrett. I think that the father may not be showing because both parents had to be present to register, for father to agree to child having his name out of wedlock OR Cornelius was given Matilda's real surname as a single mum. It is looking more like he is a real Lawrence with the father being kept completely out of the frame, and if this is the case, you will never find Cornelius' father.
You can only hope now, that due to his planning to marry Sarah Compton, that he received the TRUTH from Matilda as to his real surname and that he gave this information on his wedding certificate. How long will it be before you get the certificate?
Best regards
Tiffy
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Cawley(sidmouth)Capon(mile end) Forty(gloucester/london)Lewis(wherwell/leatherhead)Walstow(nottingham/plumstead/woolwich
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caroline hammill
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Hi Lynne, thank you ever so much for your time and effort in trying to sort out this family......which are becoming quite clear to most of them having "Father Unknown" !!!!!
I agree with you about Clara MATILDA Herbert, it does seem too much of a coincidence for this not to be her, i'll order her birth cert tomorrow...they're £7 online.
I'll probably find that this Clara is another one of Matilda's kids......LoL
Hopefully Cornelius's wedding cert will turn up by the end of next week....i'll keep you posted.
Caz
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DEVON : Gillard,Horn,Powlesland,Cooper,Crocker,Mallett,Branch
GLOUCESTERSHIRE : Hanks,Pratt,Bowen,Hall,Compton,Lawrence,Morris,Williams, Izard,Dancey,Derrett
WORCESTERSHIRE : James, Wheatcroft
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